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I'm going to follow this up just in case anyone feels like they got left hanging. We did eventually get together with my friend and his wife. They are vanilla, but my wife says there has always been flirtation and chemistry, so when we got together my wife and I were committed to testing the waters with them. As is always advised, my wife took the lead. She dressed sexy and made sure there was a lot of subtle touching between her and my friend's wife. Long story short, the two ladies did make out with each other much to the delight of both husbands (and the ladies too), but nothing more... until next time!

We consider ourselves fortunate to live in an ultra tolerant part of the country. We wouldn't be able to pull off what we're doing otherwise.

We live in a rural area in a EXTREMELY ultra conservative state that well..... frankly lies constantly about what they engage in. And they would not think twice about ruining your life. So as a result we don't play with non LS friends. I will say that we have a local bar we like to hang out in, and yes it is a place where everyone knows our name. Oddly enough last week a female of a couple asked us if we were swingers! I grinned and said if course not it's against the law ( yeah in our state non monogamy is considered sodomy and a sodomy charge is routinely used here). I would much rather hang out with our LS friends as I don't feel the need to guard against saying something inappropriate 😜. We are not jealous of each other. This past summer we celebrated 40 years of marriage so I'm pretty confident that there isn't much we don't know about each other. My wife can look around the room and tell you which female I am attracted to. And we are not the "beautiful" people you encounter at some parties/clubs we ARE old and nothing is going to change that. Swinging does one of two things to a relationship it either makes it stronger.....or it burns it right to the ground. There are 3 things I have never understood about the LS 1. Jealousy 2. The no kissing rule. & 3. How homophobic so many LS people are ( male-male and it doesn't apply to female-female) I respect anybody's rules but I don't get it. Enjoy your trip into the LS you will know if it's for you both. It's not for everyone and if it's not your cup of tea... well it won't be for lack of trying.

Couplers, Where your family falls in the structure that I outlined earlier would fall into the monogamous realm. The "playing around the edges " thread would fall into swinging. I think of polyamorous permanent relationships the equivalent of committed monogamy. Polyamory I think has a similar definition problem to that of committed ENM couplies. There are many who call themselves "polyamorous" when I would just say "sleeping around". Where the similarity comes in is that what can be clearly definitive terms, ENM and Polyamory, get blurred with just normal promiscuous free sex living.

Oldswinger64 hit this one out of the park. I think in your case, almost 100% of the women you know (subset one), who are willing to talk to you about sex and cheating (subset two), may or may not be cheaters. Because you are already opperating from a greatly reduced data set, you cannot draw the conclusion that ALL women are cheater...just the small group of women who are willing to talk to you about it. Statistics can be strange things and it is possible to draw incorrect conclusions from the data... The following comes from discussions me and my sister (a vegetarian) have had in the past. Example: 100% of all convicted murderers have eaten vegetables. Sorry, but this is a hard fact that cannot be disproved as they all have, at some time in their lives, eaten vegetables. So, the conclusion can be made that eating vegetables is what causes convicted murders to kill. Personally, I'm not willing to take that chance so I steer clear of most veggies. Better safe than sorry.

I would not say 100% of women cheat. I would say, from your post, that 100% of women who want to talk about sex with a man may cheat. Many people, men and women, would not consider it, but they would not talk to you about it either.

Pair bonding goes back to the very beginnings of humans and there is science based DNA (skeletal remains and articles found) that show these early humans (unlike Neanderthal) understood and made some sort of control of who pair bonds with who. So pair bonding goes back to our very beginning. There also is evidence that sons as well as daughters (it is speculated that more so daughters) would be sent to other family units, tribes, clans limiting the possibility of inbreeding. It has been found that at best there might be 2nd cousins at best. There is evidence showing through out early human history and forward a variety of sharing sexually, celebrations, gatherings and multiple husband or wives. Much of this stood the test of time and practice from the beginning up to the 1900s and found in practice by tribes newly discovered in the mid-late 1900s https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/natural-wonders/inside-the-mysterious-world-of-the-amazons-last-uncontacted-tribes-where-thousands-still-live-in-total-isolation-unaware-of-modern-life/news-story/8dfac22c939cd982003c86b36554b9b2 The early version of ENM. However, pair bonding was the large majority of early human relationships. There is not a decline in pair bonding that shows it dying out only a change in how and when as well as how long a pair bond would be. There is an increase and return of different bonding and family relationships.

It is unfortunate and vastly troubling when someone cheats in a relationship. And it happens in every lifestyle, religious and even in the lifestyle. It is far more destructive than most will admit. The emotional, confidence, trust, acceptance…..the feeling of “safe” in a relationship is dramatically disrupted. There is a huge difference between if the cheater steps forward and confesses all in full, as opposed to hiding, lying and denying at first or worst being caught. The one who cheated has guilt to some level and a feeling of now what? Also some angst of coming clean and having to answer multiple questions and rehashing over and over what, when, where, why, how to their SO/Wife/Husband. Very disruptive, fracture, diminishes the feeling of Us. It can ruin a relationship, will definitely change it….forever. Even if it is worked through, forgiven and the relationship continues it will always remain in the shadows. And the likelihood that it will happen again is very good. Everyone, man or woman all have a multiple spread of reasons why. The one that suffered the result will have various feelings of self doubt and inadequacy. I came across this article that will shed some light. https://www.lovetoknow.com/life/relationships/rates-divorce-adultery-infidelity Men and women are very close to the same statistically. And it is agreed that the percentage is lower then reality due to self reporting (most will not) and whom and what questions are and how they are asked.

Unfortunately anecdotal evidence is about as reliable as studies done regarding infidelity. I've seen studies claiming anywhere from 30% to 50% of women have cheated in long term relationships. I've also seen a study where men and women were asked if they would cheat if there was a 100% chance that they would never get caught, and 90% of both men and women said "yes". Overall, in my nearly 6 decades on this floating blue orb in space, I think that women cheat less than men. Women and men cheat for some similar, but also some different reasons. Men are horndogs and opportunists. We also get rather stupid around naked titties. Women tend to be more level headed about sex in general, and for the most part I don't think are as opportunistic as men. For the most part women have less opportunity to cheat as many are stay at home moms and have children with them 24/7. Most men don't have that obstacle to deal with. Interestingly enough, a study a few years ago about sexual desire in long term relationships inadvertently found that women require sexual variety more than men. It's always been thought that "men will be men" and need sexual variety. Most men in the study responded that even after 10 years they desired their wife as much as when they first hooked up, even if they had or were currently having an affair. However, women's desire for their husband diminished as the years went on. We hear this over and over from men in long term relationships, that their wife never wants to have sex. But those women that were happy in their marriages in every other respect, and that admitted to having affairs, reported a greatly increased desire for sex with their husband again. This seems to also hold with the old trope that men drag their wives into the Lifestyle, but the wives keep them in them in it. So overall my opinion is: Some women cheat, most don't. But women benefit from sexual variety more than men.

Oldswinger and hunterdon are touching on our reality. As we age, our relationships with LS couples have also changed. No one wants to feel pressured, everyone wants to feel their own level of comfort, satisfaction, and pleasure. It’s no longer about “hooking up” but rather about being present/with. It’s not about soft swing or hard swing, but rather about enjoying the time with others on whatever level. It’s a different sort of chemistry, less of an ignition or explosion and much more of a slow burn.

For us, as we ages, we sought fewer new couples and had a few couples who we saw on a regularly scheduled basis. It was more relaxed, which fit where we were at the time.

Does your style of play change as you age into your fifties, sixties, seventies or even beyond? Yes, of course it does. Your body acts differently, and your mind begins to do funny things with the rest of you. That's inevitable. But . . . that certainly doesn't mean that sex isn't fun anymore. Like everything else, it's all in your attitude.

RANT warning: It really amazes me that mature adults, especially LS mature adults seem to see sexual freedom as somehow opposed to monogamy. Monogamy literally means to be married to one. Mono(one) + Gameo ( I marry). The concept that this group , especially , sees marriage in gonadal terms gives me a headache. That fact that the partnership of marriage is far more than just genital contact gets lost. When I read posts here , as individuals, most of the poster have a handle on the reality. As soon as the discussion turns to general terms there seems to be a reversion to how things were perceived in high school. As individuals many of us see ourselves and express that we see ourselves as faithfully and passionately married to our partners. This partnership for us includes giving each other the gift of sexual variety. Am I truly missing something? There is only one adult for whom I would willingly give my life, the one who I have entrusted my life to , when there was a medical situation in which I would not be able to make my own decisions. That is the partner with whom my fate is married. Those I have had sex with have all been good people. Some of them have been more intimately involved on a deeper level. One of whom I loved in a way not possible without my wife's approval. With all of that , my reality is still very much monogamous. Perhaps my problem stems from my belief that there is a substantial difference between a sexual freedom lifestyle and its subset which is swinging, in that swinging involves couples. The couple dynamic is unique in the game. Of course there is overlap. One of our favorite playmates is a single male. In my mind though,we are swinging , he is just one very lucky single guy that my wife likes, who happens to play very well in an MFM scenario. The way things are sometime discussed marriage is some how less, or limiting. I do not believe that to be the case.

We had a very nice session with our new friends. They hung in there! We were gentle, slow and did not try anything crazy. Don’t want to kiss and tell too much, but this is a wild hobby to get into.

So I showed the pic to my wife and confessed that I made the joke that prompted this - but it was just a joke. Her response was "I always got that vibe from them". Hm. I never really did but it wouldn't be the first time I was oblivious.