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I've seen the videos. I don't think the vibe of creepy guys surrounding us would be for us. My wife would especially be turned off by it, whereas I think I could deal. The applause afterward might be worth it all however!

It’s remarkable how attitudes about (and potential consequences of) sex between people in business and other formal organizations have changed over the past few decades. And I would say for the better. I’ve come to understand that the power differentials in work relationships make for inherently unequal sexual/romantic relationships. When I was in college and grad school in the ‘60 & ‘70s sex between professors and students was commonplace. That was particularly the case for male faculty and female students, though in my case I dated a female senior faculty member. (It was interesting how gender affected perceptions. No one seemed to object much when the professor was male, my female professor took some stick from her colleagues and some of my classmates were a bit perturbed.) It wasn’t until the late ‘80s and early ‘90s that in my professional life I had subordinates. I didn’t play with colleagues generally, but one assistant and I experienced some unspoken but ongoing mutual sexual attraction. One afternoon, some time after she’d announced officially her intention to leave her job to back to school, she solicited sex with me. It was a very hot affair. Once or twice a week we would get a motel room and have sex after work before returning to our respective partners. Then we would meet again in the morning for sex before going to the office. I only had one other work-related affair, in the late ‘90s, with a woman who was temporarily assigned to the group I managed. It was a two-night stand on a work trip, facilitated by a business dinner with a lot of wine. She did note that if we were found out Inwould likely lose my job. (My then elderly assistant, who fraternallynl9ved me, clearly suspected something was going on. She was death on my colleague.) More than three decades after our brief business relationship we are still close. A few years later, after I’d left that company but was still close with many of my former colleagues, one (very cute but kinda obnoxious) female manager made the mistake of keeping on her computer desktop a folder of herself having sex with the woman who was then her secretary. An IT guy servicing her computer tried to blackmail her into servicing him. She turned the guy in to HR and he got fired. And then she got fired for having a sexual relationship with her subordinate,

Your best bet at sex on the beach is ordering it as a cocktail at a bar. And certainly not acting it out at a nude beach because you do not want to be ”those” people that got it closed it down. The vibe is predominantly gay men.

Our first LS experience was an MFM 3sum and, while it's very common for men to have erection problems at first, I had the opposite problem. I got too excited and finished in about 30 seconds. The terms of the 3sum were that my wife (then girlfriend) would only perform oral on him, but my lackluster performance caused us to change plans. It takes me a while to recover, so I spent the remainder of that encounter watching the other guy expertly fuck my wife to orgasm. That was a bit of a mindfuck but we still enjoyed the experience enough to continue and I didn't experience erection issues until our first MFMF experience a couple months later during our first visit to a swing club 😀 It doesn't always play out the way you hope but hang in there!

The above advice about not having an erection is excellent. There's a common misconception that guys can get hard anytime, anywhere, for any length of time, for any reason, like our pensises are on-demand switches we can do with as we will. It's not like that. We're humans. Sometimes things can overwhelm us. Sometimes we're stressed. Sometimes something is so new it's too much to handle. This is perfectly normal, and is in no way a reflection on you, nor your interest level in having threesomes. The first time my wife and I played with another couple (a soft swap), I had trouble getting and maintaining an erection. The woman I was playing with was wonderful in every respect. That first time was a real struggle. We got to play with the same couple again about a month later. I got hard and stayed hard that time, no issues at all.

I’m sure this was resolved…8 years ago.

Badger, read and understand the entire thread.

So I wanted to update those of you who are at all curious about how things are going for the 4 of us. Firstly, we are all still together. Angie and I, Rob and Becca and Becca and I. We have all done a lot of talking over the last several months. Rob has come to realize that I am going to be around for a while. At first he figured that this was a fling between Angie and I and that it would burn out. He has accepted (if not embraced) the fact that Becca and I are going to be in each other’s lives for the foreseeable future. Becca and I have started to spend limited amounts of time together outside of our foursome. We have also been intimate during these times, with our spouses’ permission and knowledge. Becca had a minor health issue several weeks ago and I was able to visit her and help out with some things around the house and help with her care. It was very nice that Rob trusted me enough to do that for them. Angie is as supportive as ever. She sees how happy Becca makes me and is enjoying some freedoms we have agreed on. Life is good for us. It’s still tricky navigating LS issues, like what to do when we are at the same party but not “together.” But we are working through and enjoying the ride.

I have further updates for those who would like to read about them. But first I want to respond to some things Julie and others have raised. Julie, thanks for your input. I’m not sure if you didn’t get around to reading the post I wrote on March 6 but you posted your response after that-so let me clarify. Becca has come completely clean with Rob about our feelings. They have had some long talks about it-and continue to talk about it. Again, as of about 10 days ago everything is out in the open between the four of us. There are no secrets. Angie and I have been doing a lot of reading on open marriage, which is, I think, where we are headed. During our readings we’ve come to the realization that asking one person to meet all of our emotional needs places an undue burden on that person. Think about it, we all have friends we rely on for emotional support. I have one particularly close male friend that I tell anything and everything to. He is meeting certain emotional needs of mine that Angie cannot. Angie has girlfriends that she can talk to about things that she feels she can’t talk to me about. She gets certain emotional needs met by them. Again, Angie is my life partner. We will always be together. We depend on each other for comfort, stability and companionship. We are an excellent parental team. But we have realized that we are not meant to be the end all and be all for each other. We are both okay with each of us seeking loving relationships outside of our marriage. As far as mine and Rob’s relationship, I honestly don’t have any hard feelings towards him. He is a great guy and he has been supportive of Becca’s and my feelings. I feel no resentment towards him. He is still trying to wrap his head around the whole situation and Becca and I are giving him the space he needs. Now, Angie and I got back a few hours ago from spending the night with Rob and Becca. We met up early in the evening; had some playtime and then the four of us went to dinner. After dinner we all piled into their bed and put on an episode of Lisa Ling’s “Our America.” The episode dealt with polyamory. Admittedly, it’s not quite what we’re dealing with here-as I think we are in an open kind of situation. But there we were, laying four across the bed, me-Becca-Angie-Rob, cuddling and watching this show that dealt, kind of, with our situation. Later, Becca and I remarked that it felt very natural to be doing this. She didn’t sense any uncomfortableness from Rob, and Angie told me that she felt very relaxed as well. After the show Rob was quiet for a little bit before turning to Angie and kissing her. Eventually we had a short discussion about Rob’s comfort level about Becca and me. He said that he was doing fine but still needed more time. He’s going to get all the time he needs. Becca has been upfront with him about how she and I would like to spend time alone together. He has told her that he would like to get there for her, and for me, but he’s not there yet. This is fine. Honestly, this is not the train wreck that I (and many of you) suspected it could be. I did disregard my better judgment by giving Becca my phone number-but, so far it has turned out to be a positive relationship. I submit that things are still in the very early stages for all of us and it is best to proceed with caution. I have also discussed with Angie and Becca that I am proceeding with Angela’s permission and that it is our understanding that Angie can withdraw her permission at any time. So, for now we continue on…

Thanks all for your responses and input. I’ve had many of these same thoughts myself. Let me see it I can clear up some things for you all give this situation a little more transparency. To LFM2: What does Rob really know? He knows mine and Becca's feelings run deep. I’m certain he knows this because he and Angie have talked about it. Angie wanted to make sure Rob knew because she did not want to be put in an uncomfortable situation where she had to guard what she was saying. I did not want that for Angie either and asked Becca to inform Rob, which she did. What she has not told him is that we have used the L word with each other. When we realized there was a strong physical attraction we both liked it. That’s why we didn’t stop. Don’t you enjoy having sex with people you find physically attractive? Isn’t that what swinging is about? I don’t mean to be flip, but I like having sex with attractive people. Why didn’t stop after the second night? I don’t know. I guess again, because we all like each other and the sex with Becca is really good. I admit, I was/am also enjoying the emotional connection I feel with her. We will not be going against Robs wishes. I respect and like the guy and I’m not about asking anyone to lie. You talked about the whole truth, and I suppose she has not told him the whole truth. That her emotions run more deeply than she has told him. This is a good point and it’s something I need to ponder on. It’s interesting that you think I’m disrespecting Angie and Rob here. I honestly feel that I’m communicating better with Angie now than in the past-and we’ve been pretty open throughout our whole relationship. I guess I disagree with you on that one-but maybe this point needs some more reflection from me. As far as disrespecting Rob-yes, he is not in the loop on everything. This is an issue for me and it needs addressed. Yes, I am acting like a hormonal teenager. Believe me I thought that many times throughout this whole situation. And I have had these feelings for Angie. I still do. I’m finding however that Becca is providing me with emotional support that Angie is unable or unwilling to provide me. Thanks for your input Holly. To Mr and Mrs V.: Sorry. Angie and I have been swinging for several years and this is the first time something like this has happened to us. We are talking a lot and working through it. To mauijanedoe: You said Becca and I are not a unit. You are 100% correct. This is another fact I’ve been trying to wrap my head around. One of the things I’ve told Becca is that we do not belong to each other. I belong with Angie and she belongs with Rob. Rob has no incentive to make opportunities for Becca and I to be together without he and Angie present, I understand and respect this. Don’t like it, but respect it. To swingergirl: No disrespect taken, it’s a fair question, how is my love for my wife. We have evolved into a calm, respectful partnership of keeping house and raising kids. We have both made a lifelong commitment to each other that we both intend to honor. Do we give each other butterflies in the stomach anymore? No we do not. But she is the love of my life. I miss her during the day and enjoy our intimacy during family/alone time. I can’t help but wonder if part of the attraction to Becca is the newness of the relationship and the joy of discovering that someone else finds me interesting, desiralbe and sexy. To coupleerotic22: See my last paragraph to LFM2 and swingergirl. Ultimately, Angie is my life partner but I feel I am getting different things emotionally from Angie and Becca. For Fundamental Law: Just to clear up any confusion, Rob knows there are feelings between Becca and I. He’s aware that it’s more than “just sex” between she and I. It’s just sex between Rob and Angie. You are right though, a further conversation between the four of us is probably long overdue. To Visexual: Thanks! You may be right that this is just an infatuation, I have considered this possibility. I know what my heart feels, and I know what my head thinks. I’m still trying to work out the differences between the two. To all: So here is what I think I need to do. I need to make sure Becca levels with Rob about the extent of our feelings and let the chips fall where they may. If he insists that we end it, so be it. I think the thing that has been bothering me the most is that Rob is not completely up-to-date on were Becca and I are. I shall close my novella now. Thanks all for your attention to my issue. I will keep you current.

People vary wildly in what they are comfortable with and what they are not. It is really difficult to generalize. Fantasy and reality can often be completely different. I had thought about it rationally and logically but knew that emotions don't always follow suit. For me, the fantasy of seeing with my wife with someone else was a turn on. But I had enough good sense to know that what was a turn on in fantasy might well be a kick in the gut in reality. I expected that when fantasy became reality, I was going to be turned on by seeing her with someone else. But I was fully prepared to find out I was completely wrong and that it might bother me. Those thoughts stayed with me all the way to the point I actually saw her with someone else. Fortunately, I was right and was just as turned on in reality as I was in my fantasies, but your mileage may vary. My wife didn't think she would be turned on by seeing me with someone else. Turns out she was wrong, and it does turn her on. Some couples prefer to play separate room because, while they can deal with the knowledge of their partner having sex with others, they are not ok SEEING it, or at least think they wouldn't be. In your case I would just escalate things slowly. See how he feels seeing you kiss someone first, then gradually escalator the encounter until he knows were his comfort level is. Also, hope for the best, expect the worst. In other words, hope that it is a complete turn on for him, but expect that it will be more than he can handle. Then plan accordingly. Talk about what to do and how to proceed if it turns out that he cannot stand seeing you with someone else. You both need to understand that you are doing this together, so if it turns out that one of you thinks you have made a complete mistake that you share that burden rather than placing the blame on one of you. If you share the responsibility then it is much more difficult to place blame if it turns out badly.

You are all amazing. I hope you know that! We really appreciate all the advice. As this gets closer and closer to being a reality for us we are having endless talks, just to make sure we're doing it for the right reasons and clearly know our boundaries, and to make absolutely sure it is something we both want. So often we find ourselves referring back to advice we've received here, or other messages we we've read here. I think part of the "problem" is just that we are so in tune with each other and each wants the other to be happy and that we each might have a tendency to compromise what we really wanted for ourselves, just to make the other happy. We've definitely decided that we are going to ease in very slowly, check in with each other during and after every single encounter, and be absolutely sure we're proceeding because BOTH of us want to. We agree that we generally have excellent communication and the ability to work through problems and it is really encouraging to hear about so many other couples in the lifestyle who have great marriages. That is actually part of the draw for us. In our every day lives we know so few couples who have really strong happy marriages. It seems most are unhappy, they fight all the time, hide things from each other, etc. For the most part, the couples we've met in the lifestyle seem so much happier and to have far healthier relationships. We just want to make sure we stay that way too