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Found 17 results

  1. My wife and I love skinny dipping after our youngest is in bed. We have a daughter in college that comes home on some weekends. One weekend recently, she surprised us by coming home early after being out with friends and caught my wife and I in the pool, no swim suits of course. She wasn’t freaked out, she actually was cool about it and hung out by the pool a while. She asked if we would mind if she got in for a swim, we said of course. She went in the house(we thought to get in a swim suit of course) and she came back out wearing a towel which she soon revealed that she also was nude. She is 20 by the way. She said since we were skinny dipping it would be ok for her to as well. My wife was totally fine with it. I’m ok with it, it just caught me by surprise and off guard to say the least to the point where I couldn’t look at her at first since it was my daughter. That went away after a bit. This is the first time she’s went completely nude with us. My wife and I go nude around the house all the time and she would just go around in a T-shirt and panties when she lived at home and when she comes home now. She never had shown an interest in anything more than that before. Am I just over reacting since it was the first time she’s done that and I’m trying to process it? She’s been a free spirit since she was little, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to me. She knows we’re swingers and we’re both bisexual and she thinks that’s awesome, so I don’t know why I reacted the way I did with the skinny dipping. Any ideas and opinions are welcome
  2. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/oxsfe7/me_25m_grew_up_with_parents_48f_and_52m_who_had/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ihp8sc/aita_for_yelling_at_my_parents_that_their/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/comments/u62mb5/my_son_found_out_and_is_rejecting_us/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
  3. There was topic the other day about what to do with all there swinging photos/videos. Well this past Christmas holiday my husband got himself a new computer, he follow the basic installation. while installing he installed OneDrive. A few days later our daughter saw a new icon on her laptop with the OneDrive icon and saw us in one of are "parties" from 2016. Hubby didn't realize he put it in shared mode. She kinda freak out and call us to her room and explain ourselves and what we are doing. At that point since the cat is out of the bag, we told her the truth and about us and our lifestyle and what we have done. She was asking us a whole lot of questions and we were honest to all her questions. During all this confession, our daughter told us that she is bi too, only since June 2021, and told us her first time happen in a foursome with her ex bf at the time and her bff and her bf in a after school prom party. During the Covid lock down she felt bored and wishes to try new stuff. So with her friends and all four agree to try something new and try the foursome. She told us that she like the experience and she and them continued to have experience with three and four some till my daughter broke up with her bf ( for other reason) and she continued to have threesome with her bff and bf ever once and a while. Recently she ask us that she wanted to try it and become a swinger and see what it was like. She ask us if it ok with us to take her to 1 of our local clubs for her 19 birthday in March (legal age where we are from) and (if there no other delay in opening thing open up). It was something we did not expect to be ask from her. I was speechless for the first time in a long time. I did not know how to answer her. I know I need to give her answer soon. I know I can not keep dodging the question and I need to answer her soon. We haven't told any of our swingers friends about her and her request . She the oldest of all our swingers friends who have kids. We never really talk about it, our kids life, We do not know if any of our swingers friends haved shared their personal life to there own kids. We know our daughter is adult, gonna be 19 in March, old enough to make her own choices in life. We trust her judgment. If we do not give her our blessing we don't how she will react, she might go off and go own her own without any real knowledge of the people she hang out with. And if we do give our blessings we know that she will be safe with people and places that we know and we can give her the best advice we can. We are aware that if we do give our blessings there a good chance that she might be "playing" with are swingers friends. And we are ok with that. It all part of the Swinger lifestyle. Different people, different ages, everyone there having a good time. Our question to you all is, how do we proceed, do we give her our blessings or not. Any parents here that had similar situation happen to them. And any people here who has swingers parents ? what was it like knowing that your parents were swingers. What was it like knowing the truth about them. Thank you for your time in reading this long text. And thanks in advance for the replies.
  4. Somebody on reddit recommended to come here. Our son(23M) was returning one of our bags we left at his house a week ago. He decided to return it late at night last Saturday. Our "party" ended and we had people leaving. Apparently, when he reached out front door we had couples leaving and talking about the party. My wife opened the door in shock. He threw the bag on the floor "Here's your stuff, sorry if I interrupted your orgy." My wife, as usual started blowing up his phone. My wife had the phone on speaker. He picked up the fourth time and "Mom we can talk about this on Friday at my place but I want to be left alone for this week. Friday came and we were sitting at his place. He let out a lot of his frustrations. He said "You guys were basically gone every other weekend when I was 16 years old. Was the only time you guys were at home was because you didn't have any fuck buddies to suck and fuck?" I told him to watch the way he spoke to us and that we did still spent time on the days we didn't go nor we gone for the whole weekend. He responds "Yeah name one time you guys did anything with me on an individual basis? You guys were attached to the hip basically. I was actually jealous of your relationship. How fucked up is that! I used to think it's nice and all how much you love each other but couldn't show me the same amount of love and attention. I used to get sick seeing you snuggle with each other like teenagers whenever we used to watch a movie together. You used to tease me about it but you had no idea how I felt inside." I responded with telling him that a romantic relationship and a parent child relationship are completely different. He gets pissed off and said" Don't insult my intelligence. I know that. It's still doesn't change you guys cared more about each other. I've seen how girlfriend's parents love on her. I used to get jealous. By the way, mom, yes my girlfriend isn't a big fan of yours. She doesn't respect you as my parents. The reason I didn't share how I felt when I was at home because it felt humiliating." My wife starts bawling in tears and starts begging for forgiveness while reaching out for a hug. He rebukes and calls her a whore. I started seeing red and I was up in his face telling him to watch his mouth. He then responds with saying "What are you going to do man-whore. I shouldn't be calling you a man. Get the fuck out of my house before I lose control." My wife has called out for going to work tomorrow and today. She hasn't left the bed and is crying. I've been crying all night. My son hates my guts and I don't know what to do. *Note: there's alot more cursing, so paraphrased the stuff he said
  5. I was speaking to my brother over Xmas about relationships and sex, mainly as my niece is now 13 and showing strong signs of sexual interest in boys. This lead to discussions on ages of consent and at what ages what should be allowed. He wants her to be 18 but accepts this won't happen. And we both considered we were 13 and 15 when we lost our virginities and consider this to be fine. What are others thoughts on the age of consent? What do think is the ideal age for first sex? Does it make a difference what it is and who it's with (e.g. heavy petting, kissing, oral sex, penetration, and with someone close in age or doesn't it matter?). It appears different countries have different laws on this. Ages range from 13 to marriage. Some have close in age exceptions. Please let me know your thoughts. I'll put a poll up to. Post when you lost your virginity if you wish. Parents what are your expectations on your children? Thanks.
  6. So I had a interesting chat with my daughter last night. She's been having trouble dealing with this narcissistic female friend of her boyfriend's, whom she has tried to befriend herself, but who insists on doing everything in her power to drive the poor girl insane. For the record, my daughter is vanilla, and has a bit of a problem with jealousy, so it's really hard for me to not advise her to just let the boy fuck her, get bored with her mud-puddle-deep personality, and brush her off. Get it out of his system, you know? Life is too short for this kind of stressful bullshit. Anyway, long story short, I'm trying to help her deal with this self-focused, poisonous little biatch, and went on to relate a story about my friend. "I could tell you this story," I said, "but...it's...really...like...TMI. So much TMI. Like you won't be able to look at (my friend) ever the same again." "You don't even talk to her anymore, Mom." "I know, but it's really....REAL." "It's okay, Mom," she assured me, "I've seen your and Dad's search history." -- Silence -- I gave her a questioning look, to elaborate. Because I'm sure as hell not going to be the one to flop that one out there on the table. Nope. She wants the truth, she can damn well ask for it. "Swinging?" she said, "AFF?" I laughed, actually not missing a beat. "Yeah. Well. There you go." "So did you and, uh...(friend) ever, uh..." "Oh GOD no." I exclaimed. "No no no no no. There are some rules..." "Oh so there ARE some rules then?..." "Oh yes, there are rules." I said, "One of them is that you don't fuck your close friends." I proceeded to tell her about the nightmare threesome experience my friend and her husband had with a vampiric, soul-sucking bitch who got off on shattering marriages. The point was to outline how destructive narcissists can be, and how relentlessly devious and cunning they are. So after regaling her with that gem, she sat back digesting it, and then said, "So can I ask you a question?" "Sure!" I said. I'm thinking 'This is FANTASTIC!' "I mean, only if you want to! Your business is your business, if you're uncomfortable with it..." "No, I don't mind at all. This is fun, actually!" "Okay." she said. "So, how do you guys do it? Like, how does it work?" She meant, as in, how do we have such a great relationship while fucking other people? "It works really, really well, actually." "Oh." She seemed surprised and hopefully more at ease because of my frankness and comfort with talking openly about it. "It obviously doesn't work for everyone," I said, "But for us, it's been great. You have to be able to trust one another enough to do it. And it's more about wanting to be able to give one another more out of life." That part isn't verbatim, but something to that effect. She wondered aloud whether it might be something that her boyfriend needed. I didn't agree. I switched gears a little, and explained that this is why it's been hard to advise her before, regarding her jealous streak; my first inclination would be to tell him to go do what he's gotta do. Shrug my shoulders and let the little vampire do her worst, because in the end, she still can't touch what really matters between us. My daughter said she didn't think she could do that. I said, then, that she should not. I just know that, for her Dad and I it has more or less bomb-proofed our relationship. "Some other woman can be sitting on your Dad's knee, feeding him grapes, and it wouldn't bother me in the least." She was amused at the idea of it. "I don't give a damn, she can do whatever she wants, but if she's going to be disrespectful of me, that has nothing to do with me. I leave that up to your Dad to deal with." "Like that woman at the restaurant that time?" she asked. I had apparently been too flirty with a woman's husband after imbibing too much wine (100% unintentional), and she decided to get back at me by sitting beside my husband while I was in the ladies room, putting her hand on his leg and giving him the come-fuck-me eyes. When I returned, and saw that my spot had been taken, he looked her dead in the eye and said to me, "Here, Hon, you take my spot." Yeah. My man. She got shut DOWN. Hard. "Yeah, just like that." I said, "I just laugh about it. She can try to weasel in if she wants, and I'm just like, 'Hold on! I'll get the camera!'" She thought it was funny, and I think she was even more pleased at my willingness to talk about it. It has been a big fat-ass elephant in the room for too long. They knew. Of course they knew. But neither half of the parent-child equation knew how much the other wanted to know or reveal. I'm so glad she had the balls to bring it up. She has frequently complimented her Dad and I on our relationship in the past, and I'm sure this was a mystery to her, as she explained she suspected it for a very long time now, since they were kids. Believe me, were NOT indiscreet, we just have exceptionally observant offspring. She explained she had seen me browsing the Swingersboard, and had thought I was looking up swingsets. But she noticed some of the stuff on it was about sex. She had asked why I was on that site, and I told her because I enjoyed discussing the topic with other people. It was fascinating. She wanted to know what it was, and not wanting to lie, I believe I gave her the 10-year-old's version of the truth, which was something along the lines of 'married people who don't believe in monogamous relationships.' I DID lie when she asked if her Dad and I did that, and I told her no. I enjoyed the conversation. We never discussed it again until last night. "So are those your friends from Ottawa?" she asked. "Yes." I said, "We really like them. They're really very nice people." "Huh. That's cool." she said, "Yeah we kinda wondered about that. You know, you guys just randomly going to Ottawa to visit friends or go to a party." Because she knows that's not really 'us'. We've been social hermits for-frigging-ever. "So does your brother know, too--" "--Yeah." she said, "Oh yeah, he knows." Smart little farts. I have to say, I am actually super stoked about this. I have hated having to hide anything about ourselves from our kids. We don't get into the hairy details of what we do in the bedroom - and I have no intention of starting now - but I don't want to pretend like we don't have a sex life. And I don't want to pretend that this is not a part of who and what we are. Because it is, and it's something we both love. It's not dirty. It's not deviant. It's not harmful to our relationship, to anyone else's, or to society. It has been a very positive experience and a deeply beneficial relationship philosophy. I'm hoping we can now be more open with our kids, without having to come up with stupid cover stories that - deep down - we knew they didn't believe anyway.
  7. We've been in the lifestyle on and off for six years. Stopped during pregnancy and first two years of child's life. Lately he's been getting mad that we can't swing every weekend. When we discussed getting back into the lifestyle, I said maybe one to two weekends a month. He agreed. Now he gets angry that we get messages about parties or guys that want to meet up, but we can't because his mom or my mom can't babysit overnight on short notice. Our mom's are great babysitters and love to, but I don't think it's fair to call them Saturday morning to ask if they can have a sleepover Saturday night. Also, my husband won't ask his mom, so I have to. The example that has me livid with him occurred last night. Him "so my mom can't babysit tomorrow night? " Me "no, she has your niece all day tomorrow" Him "well did you ask?" Me "no, because she said 'I'm going to be exhausted Saturday because I'm going to have ivy all day. So it'd be hard to have a sleepover'" Him "well you should ask her" Me "why? " Him "there's a party tomorrow night" Me "I don't want to pressure your mom if she has ivy scheduled, especially since your mom is having a sleepover with our daughter next weekend. " Him "fine, whatever. Don't you know anyone else who can babysit?" Me "my parents are our of town. Your sister can't (she has a heart condition), can you think of anyone? " Him "no, I guess our night is ruined. " Me "when my sister is back from overseas she can." Him " that doesn't help us right now, does it? " Me "sorry" From that point on, he didn't talk to me for the rest of the night. He was the one who wanted to start trying for kids when got married and now he's mad that we can't swing every weekend. I don't trust non family babysitters. Next weekend, I'm suppossed to take him on a ghost investigation for his birthday, but I feel like I should just cancel it so he can plan some swinging thing since that's all he cares about anymore. Am I overreacting in his behavior last night? Thanks in advance.
  8. Man, it was hard to figure out a title that couldn't be misunderstood. Anyways, we have two little ones at home. In one of the threads I was reading here, someone brought up the statistic that most swingers are in their 40's or above. I'm starting to see why. It's really difficult to figure out childcare in order to go out. It's not like a dinner and a movie, we'll be back before 11pm kinda thing, is it? We live close to my mother-in-law, but I can't very well say "we're going out, and we're planning on meeting some relative strangers and fucking the hell out of each other, we won't be home until 2am." Although I suppose we could be vague and just say we're going out for a night on the town, but we've never done that before. Suspicions may be raised. And You can't really keep a babysitter at your house that late, can you? The whole thing is incredibly frustrating. So if there's anyone here who has small children, how did you manage going out? We're thinking of canning the whole thing until we can leave them alone by themselves, but that's a good 10 years down the road We want fun adult time now!
  9. This exchange is interesting to me, for reasons I state below. I didn't want to derail that thread. Quote Originally Posted by WesternSwing "Although initially we were secretive, as we moved more into polyamorous relationships it was more difficult to keep things secret without excluding our other partners and making them feel terrible or unimportant. These days I don't broadcast my relationships, but I don't keep them secret, either. All my family know that I live with my partner and her husband and that I have another partner, also. Both my partners come to my office and visit and I go to lunch with both, sometimes at the same time. Coworkers either don't suspect anything, don't want to ask or don't care. All my partners and their families are welcome at my family's functions, also. It feels good to be "out" and just lived life as I want to. From Drinnt: THAT must be an amazing feeling! My wife and I are 6 months into what has become and exclusive polyamorous relationship. They have a family and kids and discretion is important to them. We have no kids and frankly would LOVE my family and friends to know so we could have our lovers around and involved in our extended "non secret" lives. Our family and friends KNOW about our lover couple but they think they are vanilla friends...maybe they suspect something but it's never discussed. I just think it would be an amazing feeling to be OUT with it. " Over the last year I have become become close with a very fun and enjoyable woman. Started as a swinging but progressed past a sexual attraction very quickly. She and her longtime boyfriend and my wife have also become close friends, although not romantic. Together we are great friends and do a lot of vanilla stuff together. It's not a poly relationship between all four of us, my wife and he have no feelings beyond friendship for each other. Nothing is hidden between us adults, but we haven't shared anything with our kids. They have no kids, we have two. Frankly, it is difficult at times to keep up the facade that nothing is going between her and I. Teenagers are more perceptive than we think. My son, who is 18, knows we swing, but he doesn't know or at least hasn't let on that he knows about our poly relationship. Our 12 year old daughter knows nothing about swinging or anything beyond the fact that we have some close friends. However it is going to be difficult to keep from her long term. Sometimes my wife says we should come out and tell the kids whats going so we don't have to tip-toe around anything. Her take on this is colored her gay brother who is "out" to the siblings but not to his parents. It causes a lot of grief and stress explaining why he is 48 and never married. (his mother probably knows but they all prefer to ignore it.) She thinks he should just tell her. What experiences have you with coming out? What pitfalls to avoid? Should we just stay closeted and enjoy it for what it is?
  10. This question applies both to those who have kids or don't. If you have kids, do you swing with your kids in the house? Or do you go elsewhere or at least make sure they aren't home? Whether or not you have kids, what are your feelings towards the idea of parents who swing, swinging with kids in the house? How would you feel if you were at someone's home to play and knew there kids were just upstairs or in the next bedroom?
  11. Female half of a poly couple here. My hubby of seven years and I have recently welcomed Angie (a 25 year old woman) into our marriage. We have a very busy household with our 2 small children (3 and 5 year old boys). Angie is now expecting my hubby's first child. We are all excited about her pregnancy. She is now 7 months and hubby is very excited for sure. How do others tell their existing children about the impending arrival??
  12. We are members of this board, but using a different name for this post just in case anybody in this story may happen to read here. We went to a house party at the home of a couple we have gotten to know somewhat (lifestyle circles) but haven't been intimate with. They seem like very friendly and fun people. Very social. When we got there, several young kids were there. The parents of these kids and the kids are relatives of the host couple. We hear that they won't be there very long. Okay - weird they're there at all, but - okay. The parents of the kids know about their relative's/host's activities. The party goes on. People are drinking. People getting rowdier, and still waiting for kids to leave - but acting up enough that we WildHogs feel creepy about this whole thing. Someone's shirt comes off out in the yard where the kids are playing (somewhat blocked from kids view by more sober people). Ick. Inside the house, 2 women take off tops and are posing for the host, who is snapping pics of them. Kids are trying to get in the glass door at that moment. We WildHogs stand against the glass door to keep them out at that moment and block their view. (Host knows that his young relatives are trying to get in but he keeps snapping pics.) ICK. Still, we are told that kids are about to leave any minute. Feeling creepy, but we decide to stay a little longer and maybe the creepy cloud over this party will lift. Kids sent home to be by themselves (live nearby) but parents, who are drunk now, are staying. Party gets rowdier, but we WildHogs just are not catching the vibe this night. The drunkest chick there (first one with no top), appears to have a big herpes breakout on her mouth. ICK - and she's trying to kiss everybody. Everybody in the house goes into the one room where smoking is allowed. Imagine 20 smokers all lighting up at the same time, and we two who seem to be the only non-smokers there trying to blend in and be social, but leaving very frequently for oxygen. Another obstacle for breaking this mood. (It seems like the ratio of smokers in this lifestyle is far higher than the ratio in the general population.) Start talking to one nice couple outside of that room who also seemed to be coming up for air. Learned they are non-smokers, also. They're attractive. Start talking... then, drunk people butt in on us and break up the conversation. Next thing we know, drugs are brought out and served up on a platter. Mom and Dad (parents of those little kids) are now getting stoned on top of getting drunk. As soon as we see this, it's over. We leave (politely make excuses). We are so grossed out. It just seems like many of the lifestlyle people we meet are skanky like the characters in this story. Maybe our standards are too high. Maybe we want too much and are unrealistic. Maybe we just don't fit in. Maybe swinging isn't for us? Do any of you ever get to these grossed-out moments in swinging and wonder the same things? Do you ever feel like you're just burned out on the whole thing when things happen that really turn you off, making you not wish to keep meeting people like this? Do you take breaks when this happens, or is this when you simply quit? Thanks for listening. advice is welcome.
  13. What is your reaction when your find out that your children have been swinging? There have been a few posts regarding what you do when your children find out that you have been playing with other couples and swapping mates for sex. There was post on this Board a while ago that said that the younger generation, 20 years old and up, in large numbers, have been swinging.That is certainly plausible since the younger generation is sexually more liberated. There is a swinger story posted on this Board, a while ago, where the middle-aged mom and dad visit a couples' club and run into their two sons and a daughter with their spouses. They all go home together in two cars and the son-in-law (sil) plays with his mother-in-law (mil) while in the car on the back seat. When they all get home the sil fucks the mom (mil) and the daughters-in-law fuck the dad or father-in-law. The family has a great time. We can't vouch for the veracity of the story, but it may be true. We have not run into our kids in a swing club yet. However, we do not doubt that they may be swinging and would'nt bother us one bit if we found out. The reason for this post is: A vanilla couple (J and S) we know just recently found out that their two daughters, married about two years ago, had played along with their respective hubbies, and swapped their mates with another couple or couples, and, had sexual intercourse with other partners. The wife was so distraught when she found out (we do not know how) that the girls and their hubbies were swinging and fucking other mates, that I thought there was some calamity in the family, or at least a potential divorce. The daughters and their husbands are well educated, sofisticated, and, we are sure, have a secure marriage. That's certainly our judgement, having known the family for many years. The wife asked me what she could do about her daughters and son-in-laws doing this "immoral thing" and having sexual intercourse with someone other than between their own married partners. She is certainly aware that her daughters have been sexually active for a long time and have played with and have been fucked by their boyfriends during college years when they dated. We do know from other reliable sources that the daughters and their hubbies do swing and do full swap of mates. We both just think that swinging for a young mature married couple, which they are, to the best of our judgement, is very healthy. Nothing to worry about and get bent out of shape like the mom did. Since I don't know how to address J's concerns without blowing our cover-the couple does not know that we swing too-we are looking for suggestions on how to address her concerns in a meaningful way. Please help with any ideas to put the mom at ease.
  14. This really got me thinking this morning. It was an answer to a question in this thread: Children at first meets between couples I didn't want to hijack that thread and steer it in another direction, so here are my thoughts. It occurred to me that swingers have unknowingly opened a Pandora's box, that they have been loathe to even admit existed. Talking to our kids about swinging. I personally see doing so as a chance to improve the worlds view of swinging. I get to teach 2 people that swinging isn't inherently bad, and can in fact be a very rewarding experience. Unless you totally isolate your kids, what is swinging is going to be a topic of discussion. Sadly I don't have much faith that swingers will be "open" and "honest" enough to make the best of this chance. Thoughts?
  15. The title of the thread Swinging Purgatory - being 30-something had been coming back to me quite a bit lately. I remembered the basis of it, but going back and reading it, it didn't quite fit our situation. It's interesting to me to read different posts from different age groups. When I was in my early 20's I was swinging with couples in their 30s and beyond. Now I'm in my 30s and to be honest I can't imagine swinging with most of the "kids" that I encounter in their 20's. What throws the wrench in it for us is that we are in our early/mid 30's and we don't have kids. We don't fit in with the younger couples who don't have kids, but because don't have kids (don't like kids and don't really want to hear about your kids) we find it hard to fit with the couples in our age group (and even somewhat older) as well. We have no issue swinging with couples into their late 40's and even 50s so long as we find them attractive (and there are some hotties out there in those age ranges). Reading the thread I linked above the couple posting had an issue with playing with older couples. With us, as long as you don't remind us of our parents we aren't going to have an issue. All that said, I'd say we find ourselves in a very different swinging purgatory, which may add to our reasons for preferring to only meet at clubs and socials... the mid-30s without kids group. It's just one more reason to not meet over dinner... we don't want to spend the entire dinner hearing about your kids. And too often, if we spend a lot of time talking to couples our age with kids we discover we have nothing outside of swinging in common (because we don't have kids).
  16. LFM2 made the statement that her daughter found their AFF profile. For those who's kids have found your profile(s) (or not kids, someone else very close to you), what happened? I think my son is too young to get it yet -- he doesn't like to see us kiss, so the thought that we have sex would truly disgust him. The older kids -- hard to say. I can see the daughter, who's in College, being all "OMG! That is Gross! How can you do that? (unless, of course, she's had some sort of group sex experience, which she might since she's in College and all)" and the older son being "whatever." I have one sister who would think it was cool (I suspect she's had some experiences herself), other sisters wouldn't find it so cool; my mother would assume I was talked into it somehow ... Just curious about reactions, good or bad. I remember PrettyLady talking one time about her sister being a swinger as well ... maybe the sister found her and Dog's profile maybe?
  17. Would you send your child to a nudist camp for kids? Is nudism ok for kids? Does this attract pedophiles? This was brought up on Good Morning America this morning. Very interesting!
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