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Showing results for tags 'communication'.
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How long have you been thinking about wanting to swing and/or discussing it with your SO? -
When did you tell your doctor you and your S.O. swing? Are there any interesting/embarrassing/odd/life-affirming moments you would care to share? Very curious as to other people's experiences.
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My husband and I had our first full swap...well, I ended up getting to and he didn’t. I made several mistakes that turned what could have been a really fun night into one we’re both having a hard time processing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We were same room with a couple we both liked. I suggested trying full swap (first mistake-we had said that we wouldn’t change rules in middle of play). I had been very unsure about doing full swap in previous discussions, but my husband was open to it because he felt like vaginal sex was the same to him as oral in the situation. So I decided the only way I’d know how I felt is if I tried it. We did not stop and talk in detail about how we felt (second mistake), and moved forward with full swap. My husband was having some issues with getting hard, so I came over and helped a few times, and I thought he was ok. He wasn’t.(3rd mistake). The biggest mistake of all is that I finished my full swap when he didn’t get to have one. I got caught up in the moment, and I wasn’t there for him like I should have been. I know I was in the wrong and accept full responsibility for my actions. Both of us have been struggling with processing the events of what happened. We both want to work through it, but we have no clue how to. We’ve been together for almost 17 years, and we were in such a great place before this happened. Please help!
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My wife and I starting playing unexpectedly with some close friends who are a couple about 4 years ago. It was a random thing that happened one night. After the initial encounter I sat my wife down and discussed rules, expectations, dynamic, etc. We agreed we would be soft swap, anything was ok except we only fuck each other and only play with both present. I suggested we discuss what we talked about with the other couple. My wife didn't want to do that. She was ok with us being aware and having our rules. I reluctantly agreed. Many encounters later all is good. The dynamic has been when the wives are ready to play we play. I've wanted to be a little more proactive and actually plan play dates, figuring the anticipation would be great, we could have some sexy discussion, and we could communicate more openly with the other couple. I've always been shit down saying the spontaneous nature was working fine. This last weekend we got together and I found myself with the other wife straddling me asking if she could fuck me. My wife chimed in and said it was ok if she could fuck the other husband. I said no, nope, no we have rules and this breaks them. We had discussed that rules can change but not in the heat of the moment. I know without a doubt my wife does not want me fucking anyone else, and she definitely does not want to fuck the other husband. She's fine playing with him but not all the way. I knew she would regret it. We moved on and had a good night. The next morning my wife was so appreciative of me sticking to the rules. The other couple though were confused. I had to explain to the other wife we have rules. She was cool with that, but maybe my wife and I should revisit the rules. I asked my wife if she wanted to augment the rules. She said no she was good. We are strictly soft swap. I'm cool with that. I asked to have an open discussion with the other couple. I asked both my wife and the other wife. They said they wanted to keep it like it was. The ladies initiate, guys follow suit. I suggested that we plan more it could be fun and open more communication, more fun I was shot down again. I was told to not overthink things. That everything is fine. Am I overthinking things? Am I always going to be the rules enforcer? How do I work at more planning because that's something I want with out sounding crazy and over thinking?
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Why do people use "divorce" as a threat when upset? It is like the catch phrase of the times. If you step out of line It is divorce. In our relationship, that isn't even a word in our vocabulary, I think we are strange, as the divorce rate is 52% on this continent. Maybe it was our upbringing, but it isn't even a option, let alone a word used out of anger. Are marriage vows that meaningless that we can throw the D word around like it means nothing. I think i was born in the wrong time. I belive in the old ways you married someone for life. I can understand if there is abuse or cheating but it seems in todays society there is no reason to small to warrent a divorce, actually you don't need a real reason at all. So maybe the way this should go is for those of us who have never been divorced, What is your secret to a great longlasting marriage? Ours communication, honesty and intimacy, It has worked for 12 yrs.so far.
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My husband and I have always been very open and honest with each other about everything. We're not swingers but we did play around once with another couple many years ago. Anyway, my husband thought it would be fun to give me a hall pass to use with one guy. He didn't know I already had a guy in mind when I planted the idea in his head! I workout 1-2 hours a day 4-5 days a week at a gym down the street. There's a really cute trainer there... he's muscular, tan, handsome, so hot! We had been flirting for a few months so the sexual tension really built up. We started sleeping together a bit over a week ago and I've been with him 8 out of the last 11 days now. I can't describe how hot the sex is - my whole body is in complete ecstasy - didn't even know sex could be that intense or pleasurable. The fourth night we made love he gave me the most intense orgasm I've ever experienced. And the night after that he fucked me for nearly three hours straight...100% of his attention on making me cum as many times as possible. I can usually climax 3-4 times in a good session with my husband. My record was nine. Well, let's just say that after three hours of the most amazing sex I've ever had in my life, he had succeeded in making me cum 21 times. I'm pretty sure that record will never be beat with me! On top of the incredible sex, he is a really cool guy and he's a blast to hang out with. He's funny, considerate, smart, sweet, etc. So in addition to the awesome sex I'm getting the full "boyfriend" experience...holding hands, snuggling, making out, cuddling all night, etc... which I totally love! So how honest should I be with my husband about the extent of the fun I'm having....without getting my hall pass revoked?! I mean, just the thought of this guy touching me makes my pussy dripping wet and my heart beat faster. Should I tell my husband how many times I came? Am I having way too much fun for a married woman or is this what a hall pass is all about? I'd love to keep fucking this guy as long as possible!!
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So you're in the middle of a full swap and things have gotten hot and heavy, your spouse hasn't looked at you for a long time, you think she's forgotten you're in the room... you're starting to get bothered by seeing your spouse enjoy it waaaay too much. You don't want to spoil the fun, just need your spouse to realize your still there without creating a scene, don't want the other couple to see your jealousy. Note: Don't want to stop the fun...just need your own spouse to desire you or show you some attention. How do you do it?
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Some background: A little over 1 year ago we met this couple through a swinging personal ad site. We got along with them *apparently* very well and had some fun times with them over the course of last summer. All of the sudden, they more or less disappear and we really don't hear from them until just a couple days ago. The situation: He IM's C a couple days ago and they start chatting, catching up so to speak. He lets her know that his wife is in another state for the next few days on some family business. You guessed it, he tried to worm his way into a 3some with us.* *Not that I/we would mind too much but given the fact its the first time we hear from either one of them in almost a year and the first thing he wants is a 3some....no way We more or less laughed and shrugged it off. Well...yesterday he messages C again and this time he started off with "I WANT TO FUCK YOU LIKE A NASTY WHORE" and then he proceded to tell her his wife thinks I am too much of a bottom and don't know how to fuck on top and he remembers how C got into it when he was banging her and he wants to give her a *real* fucking, etc etc etc C tells him repeatedly to knock it off and he keeps bugging her. The last thing he said to her before she put him on ignore is "YOU NEED TO BE PUMPED BAD" Ok, I know this isn't how most male halves of swinging couples act. However, am I justified in wanting to beat the fuck out of this guy for completely disrespecting C and talking to her like some kind of cheap whore and more or less breaking our trust of him? (we thought he was a decent guy and could be trusted with C's personal Aol instant messenger information)
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Hi out there. I’m married and in an evolving relationship. Last year I did a burlesque photo shoot for him as a gift. He loved the way it turned out but asked if I’d be willing to do something more risqué in the future. I got a reference from the original photographer (female) and told my husband the new photographer would be a male. Being the protective husband he is we both requested a meeting over a cup of coffee. We met which was great and made things all the more comfortable. I loved what I saw from his book and my husband did as well. We had the shoot and the pictures came out great. He got really turned on by knowing another guy was doing the pictures. I was shocked. I asked him if he’d consider doing a couples shoot with me and he said he’d try but was reluctant. Pretty soon after he agreed and we were off again. Prior to the shoot my husband and the photographer talked about his career. My husband, who’s faithful, shocked me a bit with his envy and open talk about what the photographer experienced. I’m extremely open and joined in the conversation. Both of us felt like we were conversing with someone we really liked and knew a lot longer than we actually did. Unfortunately my husband had difficulties getting hard which is completely out of the ordinary. The photographer said it happened a lot and just to relax. Surprisingly at my husband's request he asked for me to do a POV shoot the photographer showed us in his book. Basically it’s the photographer including himself in various ways while taking the pictures. As we started taking the pictures I liked being touched by the photographer even though it wasn’t active foreplay or sex. It really was strictly for the pictures themselves. During the pictures my husband quickly got hard and watched. Eventually the photographer asked him if he was going to get involved. The rest of the shoot went as we planned. Afterwards we all sat around and talked and went through the pictures. Some time passed again and we talked a lot about the fun we had with it. My husband admitted he liked watching the photographer touch me and if not for that he may have been to nervous to get hard. I really want this to develop further but I’m apprehensive because it’s a major change in life obviously. I’m also not sure about how I feel about seeing him with someone else. When I say I’m not sure I mean most likely not. I don’t even really think he wants to. I almost feel like if I bring that up it will be too much too fast. Multiple times when having sex we’ve dirty talked about me doing another shoot and giving myself up. I’d feel more comfortable to actually do it than talk about it. I feel like my husband has opened a door that I want to walk into. Am I reading it wrong? Is it best for me to just set something else up and let it work itself the way it will? Based on our interactions I have no doubt the photographer would be into it also. Would I be going to far given our relationship if I reached out to the him and told him how I feel, how my husband feels, and confirm he’d say yes?
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What are good ways to explore new fantasies and become more at ease with exploring. Porn can be a turn off (mostly due to religious upbringing), but it’s not completely off the table. Even though the LS still just fantasy for now, we have gotten such great advice here on how to grow stronger as a couple, trust and communication. Thanks in advance!
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I'm starting this thread in response to one in the curious section where the author felt a little bad because his wife wasn't sharing all her fantasies with him. He said he knows they are not ready for swinging, in part, because of this. Well, here I am, swinging with my husband for 3 years, and it's gone very well. But, I still have a private fantasy place I go to (in my mind). I tell my husband things I want to try, we talk all the time about what we like about swinging sex and our sex. But, when he watches me touch myself and then says, "What were you thinking about?" I won't tell him. I don't lie, sometimes I tell him generalities. It's not about a specific person or people, it's not anything that really could or would happen in real life. It's not anything I want to try, I just find it hot to think about. But, I would be embarrassed to tell anyone, and it would make it less hot for me if he knew about it. In a way, I like not telling him, I like having a little corner of my mind that's all mine. On the other hand I feel a little guilty, because it's really not a big deal and he would like me to tell him these fantasies in great detail and would probably find them hot, too. But, believe me, I have told him (and many of you also) all kinds of silly fantasies, because I have a ton! What do you think? Do you tell your spouse everything you think about to get off?
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Hi, so wife and I are comfortable with the swingers lifestyle but we have said that we are both ok with sleeping with people separately. However, we have come across a problem and I'm not sure if I'm the problem or if she is. My wife has been in the lifestyle for far longer than me and has a vast amount of experience. A while ago we went to a club and there she met the club manager and they started talking. After leaving the club they carried on chatting on a daily basis, and when I asked her what they where talking about she would say that they always talk about work or stuff friends would talk about. However last night i found out that they have been flirting with each other. Problem is when we started swinging we said that communication is the most important thing to keep us safe from any complications. I feel that we have to discuss and inform each other when we are talking or flirting with others and she feels that there is no need to inform me if she is flirting with others. Am I been unreasonable by asking her to tell me when she is flirting with guys and is it unreasonable for me to have gotten upset about her telling me they only talk about work stuff only to find out there is more involved?
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Hi this is Petra, usually the happy face of polyamory and upbeat on poly life, and up to this point everything had been pretty great. Now, however, I am seeking advice and solace from my colleagues on the Swingers Board, and relying on the fact that no one else in my family bothers to visit and read here. I acknowledge that my situation is of my own making and I am dealing with the consequences of my own arrogance. No one wants to hear all the details of someone else's drama, so as short as possible. For those unfamiliar with us, a summary in a couple of sentences: Our poly family consists of my boyfriend Red, who predates my husband and lives a short distance away, and my husband David and our girlfriend Clair with whom we share a home and two children, both hubby's. Red and Clair are not sexually intimate. We swing on occasion exclusively with another married couple Walter and Lora. Lora and David (my husband) were a couple before I met David, or Lora met Walter. I was the one that instigated the initial "re-acquaintance" of Lora and hubby because she is so attractive, I wanted to get to know her, know why they got together then split, see her naked, spend time with her. In due course all four of us (Red, Clair, hubby and I) struck up our full swinging relationship with Lora and Walter before they were married, while they still lived here in Massachusetts. After they moved to California two years ago, we still occasionally got together, sometimes all six of us, but usually just one of us with one of them. From the beginning there seemed to be something between Lora and David that made me feel insecure, and it persisted even after Lora married Walter. In my eyes, she is better than me in every way, and Lora and my husband seem so perfect together. I mean, I've seen my husband fuck a handful or so of other women and even love another woman, our girlfriend Clair, who has his child, so what's the big deal? What's driving me crazy is that a few months ago my husband, David, and Lora went on an "adventure" together, hiking for like three weeks in the Atlas mountains in Morocco. (With Fez and Marrakesh thrown in on the ends. More like a honeymoon than a hike.) On top of that, Lora had told us that Walter and Lora are moving back to Boston from California, but it turns out only Lora moved back, and that she and Walter split. So of course Lora spends a lot of time with us now. I know everyone says "communicate," but I can't talk to hubby about this. He has never denied me anything or doubted me, so how can I say anything, regardless of what his feelings are for Lora? The Morocco trip was no surprise, and if I told him their adventure bothered me he would have called it off, for me, not a single protest. "Anything you want Pet." He says it all the time. He would give up seeing Lora if I asked, but how could I? David never protests when I go off alone with Red (or Clair, if that counts) for an escapade, or that the plan is for my next child to be Red's. I am too proud to admit to Clair or Red or David that I am weak, failing my poly principles. Especially hubby since he has never failed them with me. I owe David too much to deny him anything, especially since I have no doubt that he still loves me. But that bitch is just too perfect for me, and she seems more attractive, getting even better than me, and more perfect as time goes on. Please, anyone, do you have some magic words? I'm going crazy.
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We've been in the lifestyle for a couple of years and have had some fantastic times, we've also had a couple of "what were we thinking" times. Our biggest issue of all is that she is shy and he is quiet and that does NOT make for an easy go of things. We don't know what to say or how to approach another couple or person unless it starts online. Writing is a breeze for her (don't you wish you knew which part of the couple you were talking to?), so she can start an online conversation and that eases the transition to meeting in person. Group settings are a whole new ball of wax! We don't know how to approach, what to say, etc. So we are in the back, in the corner in the dark, observing but being "wall flowers". but we're not! We've never heard anyone have a conversation, don't have a clue as to how to start one, or how the subject of consensual couples sex is broached! The situations that we have been involved in are mostly good, until it's an open arena where there are a lot of people, and then the blending into the wall happens!So,with both of us being unsure, we've not had success at house parties or clubs. We know we're not compatible with everyone, but nobody approaches us because of our personalities! It's a shame too because once we're comfortable with someone we're a lot of fun! We just need some ice breakers or something! Advice please!
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Reviving an old topic, but with a poll this time. Do you ask other swingers that are potential playmates if they have been tested for STD's? Always, sometimes, never? If the answer is "sometimes", what factors do you use to decide to ask that question?
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We think they gave us herpes...how do we tell them?
GMOFLEISURE replied to a topic in Let's Talk About Sex
Obviously another awkward at best subject that I'm not seeing discussed much. You play as a couple or individual with another couple or individual. A few days later either: 1. The other sends a message they have a STD manifesting itself. 2. You find symptoms emerging. What is the best course of action to get through this socially 'difficult' situation? I've been through this before many years ago & took several actions. But, I am curious what others think are the best actions to take in these awkward moments. Among other things there is the question of who has been carrying & who received. STD tests are at the bottom line only good until you make sexual contact again, then you are back to zero. Condoms, washing up, & other measures are less effective than we hope. Clearly there is a minefield of drama, liability, embarrassment, expense & knowing you are not going be getting laid for a while. Anyone care to comment on how this can be best dealt with? Or perhaps share their experience? -
I am a registered member but am posting unregistered due to the nature of my problem. We have been playing with a couple for a year, we talked daily and met up quite regularly. They are much more active in the lifestyle, while we have only been with a few couples. Recently we don't talk or meet up anymore, but when questioned the response is everything is fine. Well a week ago my husband noticed a rash just under his belly button, we went to the doctor and he said it looks like herpes. We are waiting on blood results now. We haven't been with anyone but this couple in 5 months. From what I've read, the symptoms come about just under a month after being exposed to the virus. My question is how do we tell this couple that we think they gave him herpes? Part of me thinks they knew already and this is the reason for the "friendship" dwindling. I am terrified and feeling so betrayed because I'm expecting a very negative response along with denial and spreading of this news to everyone. Any help or advice would be so appreciated.
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Reading the posts about "how bad swinging is for relationships" got me to thinking. I think we can agree that "swinging" or the "lifestyle" is not for couples unless they have an extremely strong relationship and good communication. As such, what does the lifestyle add to such a great relationship? Are couples looking for something that is missing from their relationship? If so, is that relationship strong? Not questioning the lifestyle. Just curious about the answer.
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Ok...the situation is this... Mr. Hitch and I are dancing and we get approached by a couple. Chemistry is there, we all decide we want to play together. How do people discuss boundaries? Anyone want to write a short script or tell me how you personally discuss your boundaries with a new couple? Thanks! BTW, this site is amazing. I've spent the last week researching the past topics and reading the manual. Discussion with Mr Hitch has been open, honest, and thrilling really. You all rock.
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New to swinging, I am curious about something. Do the majority of married couples decide on the lifestyle prior to marriage or is it usually something introduced down the line when newness is desired?
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For two years we've had a no-hall-pass / no-separate-date rule. Well, that is until we started a semi-poly relationship with another couple. A few of our swinger friends know about this relationship. In the past, a few of the guys in those couples have asked if we play separate. Well, now that they are getting word that we are playing separate, they are chomping at the bit! We've been pretty clear that this is the first time we've done this and so far we're only comfortable doing it with this couple because we are BOTH doing it, and doing it with a couple that knows each other, etc. Well, yesterday one of the guys texted my wife (they have messaged a little in the past when we used to all play together) and asked if she is playing separate and if she'd be interested in going out on a date with him. At first I wasn't bothered, but then I started to think about it: He and I have texted way more and have more of a "relationship" than he and she do. Since he knows this is something we haven't wanted to do in the past, why wouldn't he come to me first and ask me if it was ok? I mean, in the same situation, I wouldn't have gone right to the girl and done that. I would have totally talked to the guy first. I hate being "circumvented / stepped-over" and would never do that to someone else. So, I'm a bit bothered by this. Not really upset, and I like the guy and think he's pretty harmless, so I have no intention of talking to him about it. I'm just wondering what y'all think. In a situation where you were pretty good friends with a couple and knew they were just new to stuff, would you think the guy should go direct to the girl, or get the "ok" from the guy first? -
Hi, It's been a while since I have posted here. Several months ago my wife and I started to discuss swinging. We watched some video, joined a website and had lots and lots of talking about all aspects of what it would be like. We even met up with another couple through the website. We agreed to get to know them first but they are temporarily moving out of the area until their house is renovated. So that has stalled. This whole experience however made us feel so alive, so close and without any barriers. Even after 20 solid happy years together. The issue is this. We went overseas on holiday for a while and visited family a few months ago. Between that and work its stopped us talking about swinging. Now it's went right off the boil. We're not sure now. I miss how we felt now. It was a real awakening which we both felt. I (male) have been ahead in some things (internet, research etc) and my wife ahead in others (would prefer separate rooms). My wife also struggles with the idea of sharing photos of us but it happy to meet other people. That worried me that perhaps we weren't ready. Were we just catching a glimpse of a life not meant for us? Are we following a journey that could yet lead to swinging? I don't want to pursue something not for us but we were both so happy with our journey to swinging and I miss how even talking about it made us so close. We both really love the idea of seeing each other with someone else. I think however we are both really nervous and scared to lose what we have. Thoughts?
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I kinda would like an opportunity to write about an aspect of this that is... worrisome to me, kind of, and this topic is relevant. I am the wife in this couple, and had many hesitations about trying this lifestyle. I still can't say that we are experienced, we are beginners. At first I went through a lot of the usual fears and feelings people describe from the reluctant wife. I ended up going along with it sort of resigned to the idea that I might as well, if he is sick of me he is sick of me, and he is going to get it elsewhere anyway. Turned out it was not as I expected, and his motives didn't seem to be what I thought. He mostly gets turned on seeing many other men turned on by me (he's sort of a materialistic type, like to show off his stuff, cars, etc.). Perhaps he also likes to see me being more sexually aggressive, and working harder to seduce him as I did when we first met 25 years ago. Here's my problem - I am jumping in the game, wearing sexy stuff, doing all the role playing and posing and he is ecstatic. We're all kinky and he is having a blast. I have not had an orgasm since we started this. Though I am faking them beautifully and loudly. I did this in the beginning of our relationship, took him out dancing and surprised him with no panties under my short skirt, riding him in a semi public place, doing strip teases, going into kinkier acts like anal sex. I am not, on the surface of things, a prude- I have more sexual experience than he, have had threesomes and stuff before I met him, and things like oral sex are a no-brainer. But perhaps deeply, I am what you guys are calling a "vanilla"? I even get into playing domination or submission- any of this, but it is a "mental" pleasure. I mean I enjoy it through his eyes, knowing how excited he is, but physically I feel less. My attention is pulled to the exterior, to appearences, and not to the interior and my sensations. So I feel numb. It just becomes a big act. I feel badly, because the first time we had sex in a club, he was thrilled and talked for days about how that was really "making love" for him. It surprised me because I would have used the word "fucking" (and I don't mean that in a bad way, just not a "loving" way.) He is not aware that I had no orgasm, and that I was very intensely putting a lot of effort into being a sex goddess, which was distracting me from getting any enjoyment from it! On one hand, I am thinking, okay, we experience this differently, and what feels intimate to me is not for him, and vice versa. We have done a lot of my "vanilla" style the last few years, with me having the biggest mind blowing and multiple orgasms, so perhaps it is only fair that we change for a while and do it his way, while I am less satisfied. He lives through the regard of others, so it isn't good for him unless other people witness it. Are there other women that can relate to or understand what I am saying? I guess I'm talking about being cut off from my senses by being overly attentive and conscious of others? Is there any advice, ideas, or thoughts from anyone about how to better find a balance between our different sexual tastes or needs? I thought about this in relation to this topic because I wonder if it is a problem to consider for similar couples- it might not be enough to 'talk her into it", for her to find physical pleasure in it might be more complicated even past that. -
My husband and I are not swingers, but we think our friends are. Swinging has been a topic that they bring up jokingly every month with us. We started hanging out with them regularly a year and a half ago, and things have become increasingly weird. It started out with my friend's husband staring at me during dinner, and with sexual innuendos such as my female friend pretending to hump my face (from a foot away) in front of our husbands. It has since progressed to them trying trade seats with us in cars and on the couch. As well, my friend's husband has started to comment on my appearance and touch me in front of my husband and his wife. My friend seems to have no issue with this, and even prompts him to do it. For example, when we were eating fondue, she mentioned that I did not have my food in the boiling oil, and her husband continued to take my hand and help me cook my food while she was watching. The last time we went to dinner, he made blatant sexual remarks about me, and my friend suggested she wanted to grab my ass and then she kissed me on the check. I had too much to drink that night and apparently ended up cuddling with them on the couch, but I remember nothing. When I found out what I had done I apologized, but they insisted it was a lot of fun and that I should not be ashamed. It's all done in such a way that is subtle enough where my husband does not get offended, yet blatant enough where he also feels that there is a fair to good chance that they are merely trying to casually broach the topic of swapping or something, that we can't quite pinpoint. There's also the factor, that between us, I tend to have more in common in conversation with her husband, where my husband seems to have more in common with his wife, and so, either by accident or intent out conversations often tend to split along those lines. They have also starting pushing us to stay over at their house when we hang out, and they are pushing us to go on trips with them. Based off of this, what would you guys tend to think of the situation, and what are your opinions of what their intents might be? It's especially difficult to discuss how to proceed when there isn't any real certainty in what the actual situation might be. Thank you.
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Hi everyone I have what I believe is kind of a problem. We have had an open marriage for some time but not really very active given life, a child, etc. You get the picture. My husband is a musician, which has entailed going on the road at times, and I have also acknowledged the possibility that he might meet someone and have sex with them, and I'm cool with that. I also am allowed such a option to "date" a man or woman outside of our relationship. However, we had never ever talked about "swinging" with a couple, separately. Earlier this year I was in Las Vegas. While I was gone he "assumed" I must have done something, so he went out to dinner one night and randomly met some couple. Went home with them, fucked the dude's wife, and the only way I found out about it was because his brother had called me because he never showed up to a rehearsal! He had overslept at their place, was a couple of hours late to that rehearsal, etc. When I called him to find out what had happened I got the runaround. Then of course, it all came out when I got home. I was, frankly, livid. The thing is, I don't believe he would have told me as he never expected to get "caught." At that time our marriage was not in a good place and I was really hurt that he would go out and do that, particularly as we had never talked about such a scenario. As far as I was concerned at that time, it was over. Well, on two occasions thereafter, he snuck over to their place to fuck his wife again, and I later found out that the guy sucked his dick at least on one occasion. He snuck back over there on two occasions while I was at work and in the morning. To make a long story short, we finally got our marriage back on track, or so I thought. Prior to that I tried to be open and ask if I could meet them, and initially he said that they would like to meet me. Then he says that well, the guy has porn on all the time he's there, and "I'm a man and I can handle it." WTF? Then he says "you wouldn't like them." WTF? Then he says "I don't want to see you with the guy." So I said, well, then I don't want you with his fucking wife! This is not about sex per se, I have been more than comfortable and cool with it in the past e.g. he recently spent the night with a girl he met on the road who was here on vacation and we all had dinner together and I went home afterwards and he spent the night with her and I was totally fine with it. It is just this particular married couple that is bugging the shit out of me. I have seen as many as 17 to 30 text messages on the bill between them. He told me after we agreed on some kind of "veto power" if necessary, and he has essentially vetoed me, or at least expressed his dislike of the possibility of a certain situation. I am feeling as if my veto has no power, and I have seen their phone number popping up on the cell phone bill. If he had told them it was over, they would not still be contacting him, would they? He has never been really up front with me about these clowns and in the past two weeks it appears that they are texting him again, and it seems as though he is keeping them as some kind of option, and not telling me. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but now I just don't know what to do. I have dug into my feelings and it is not jealousy. It is the deception and the lies and the sly sneaking around which, even in an open relationship, is still in my opinion cheating. Anyhow, thanks for reading my babble
