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I’ve been lurking a while and read a ton here the boards. Now I’ve gotten myself into a situation that is not talked about very much on here. I’ve fallen in love with a playmate. I really didn’t mean for it to happen, and from what she tells me she didn’t mean for it to happen either. Let me start by saying I’ve been completely open and 100% honest with my wife, and my playmate Becca tells me that she has been mostly open with her husband. We’ll get to that in a bit. Becca and I met at a club, just a few months ago. From the first I thought she was attractive, I mean let’s face it, we’re here to fuck attractive people, right? My wife, Angie, and I went to the club that night to have some fun. We’re experienced swingers-we don’t play alot, swinging does not rule our lives- but we’ve had our share of fun. The night I met Becca was no different; we hoped to meet some fun people, have some good to great sex, and maybe make some friends we could hang out with on a regular basis. Becca and I both realized pretty quickly that there is a strong physical attraction between the two of us. The sex is effortless and I’ve never fit together with anyone better. After that first night of being together, my wife Angie and Becca’s husband Rob exchanged numbers. Becca asked for my number but I declined, telling her she could just text Angie if she wanted. I don’t normally like to have communication with the women I play with outside of swinging situations. I was not able to get Becca out of my head for the next several days- which is unusual for me. I threw caution to the wind sent her my number via SLS. She texted me a few hours later. Over the next several days we exchanged texts and even spoke on the phone a few times. All with Angie’s knowledge. We all four got together again a few weeks later-and it was even better than the first time. It was that night that I recognized that I had developed emotional feelings for Becca, and I was pretty sure that she had developed similar feelings for me. A few days after we were all together the second time I told my wife about my feelings for Becca. I told her I didn’t know if I was getting our sexual chemistry mixed up with emotion but I thought that could be the case. To my surprise Angie did not freak out. She told me she suspected something was up-given the amount of communication between Becca and I. I took a few weeks to sort out my feelings and spent many more hours talking to both Angie and Becca. I realized that I was probably in love with Becca. And I told them both so. Becca told me she feels the same way. This is not the “oh, I’ve just fucked someone new, I hope they like me best” kind of feeling. We’ve both been with other people since we met and it has not cooled our emotions. This is raw, real and deep. When I told Angie all of this she gave me license to pursue a relationship with Becca and follow it wherever it may lead. I did not ask for this, Angie offered it to me. Angie is secure about our commitment to each other-I am not leaving my wife and Becca and Angie both know that. Becca also has no intention of leaving her husband. Becca has talked with her husband Rob about us and the feelings we’ve developed for each other. What she has not told him is that she thinks loves me, she does not know how he would react to that (here is the mostly open part that I alluded to in the first paragraph). She has told him our feelings are deep but has not gone into how much we care for each other. Rob is completely comfortable with texts and calls throughout the day, but not with Becca and I meeting without him and Angie there-even for lunch or dinner. I completely understand and respect this. I don’t like it, but I respect it. I suspect if the shoe were on the other foot I would feel the same way. I really genuinely like Rob by the way, he treats both Becca and Angie really well-and he and Angie have really great sex together. Angie has told Rob that it’s just sex between the two of them and Rob feels the same way. They have no other feelings for each other past that. Becca and I text every day and talk several times a week; I know about her life and children, and she knows about mine. We have similar interests and lives outside of swinging, we are in similar businesses. We have become emotional rocks for each other. I get emotional needs met from her that I do not get from Angie. Again, I have been upfront with Angie about all this and she is fine with it. So here are my big questions: Do these things really ever work, or are we on the express train to Dramaville? Is it possible to keep something like this going long term? How do we navigate the fact that Rob is not comfortable with Becca and I meeting without him around (again, we will not be going against his wishes on this one) and knowing that he and Angie will want to have more variety in their swinging soon, which will leave less opportunity for Becca and I to be together? Any thoughts from the wise sages on here are welcome. I’m a big boy-if I’ve being naïve about anything please tell me. I can take it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/carnival-cruise-brawl-caught-on-camera-broke-out-over-alleged-cheating-passenger-says/ar-AAZ0mA7?li=BBnb7Kz

Hello everyone. I'm new to the board, but not the lifestyle. My hubby and I have been swinging off and on for about 10 years. It has always been a wonderful experience for both of us. That is until now. We have always had our rules firmly put down, and neither of us broke any of them. Not even stretched them to be honest. You know, same room, full swap okay, singles okay...yadda yadda yadda. For us absolutely no secrecy. Always together and involved. Unfortunately this has now changed. A couple of weeks ago my husband made a huge mistake with a girlfriend of mine that we had had some fun with numerous times before. Now, we have taken a break from male partners or couples because we are/were trying to add to our family. I did become pregnant, but unfortunately lost the pregnancy at just shy of 6 weeks. The miscarriage happened on Monday two weeks ago. My girlfriend came over to hold my hand while I cried and to let me blather on and try to feel better. That night we were sitting on our bed and I had another good cry with my hubby and girlfriend present. I had taken a RX pain pill and it knocked me out after that. We're talking a tornado couldn't have woken me! Unfortunately sometime around 2am my husband and my girlfriend had sex in my bed with me out like a light. To make matters worse, no condom was used and she was ovulating. Now, we also have the condom rule in our swinging (before anyone asks). The next morning I actually said thank you to my hubby for understanding my feelings and not doing anything last night. How foolish I feel right now!!! Honestly, I did make myself very clear where I stood as far as fun went, especially on that particular night considering what had happened. My husband didn't bother to say anything to me about his activities. Three days went by and I was talking to my girlfriend on the phone. She told me like it was some big joke. The "oh gee..hahaha...I thought he would have had sense enough to pull out". I asked her to please clarify what she was telling me. She did and I was completely stunned. So much so that I actually fell down. So not only did they have no regard for my feelings about losing the baby, they risked her becoming pregnant. I have no idea how I am supposed to feel right now. Sometimes I think I'm okay and can get through this. Other times I want to scream. You see, the reason we are having such a difficult time having a baby is because I am a cancer survivor. It's a miracle I was able to become pregnant in the first place. I guess I felt the loss more than he did. Her period is due this week. If she is expecting, I think I might actually go crazy. Please help me...someone...anyone! I don't care if you have to tell me to do a back-bend and say Buddhist chants. I will take any and all advice to heart. Thanks in advance and I'm sorry this is so darn long.

Once again thank you all for the sage advice that you have given me over the last two years. I appreciate it and I always take time to read through the boards and learn as much as I can. So let me catch you up on where my wife and I are at now. We are in an open marriage having transitioned from swinging due to the fact of that we were having just no luck finding that elusive four-way match with couples. Single guys in the area around us tend to be plentiful, but single females/unicorns of course still tend to be extremely rare. So we decided to transition to an open marriage and for us to play separately. We still share our experiences regularly and still discuss and communicate thoroughly before and afterwards. My wife currently has a boyfriend that she enjoys time with and she also has a irregular play partner she sees once a month. So today’s discussion is about me: I am currently in a, well I don’t know if I should define it as a “relationship“, with a female that started out originally trying to be a unicorn with us (the wife and I), but that didn’t work out as my wife and her personalities are total opposites. So I decided to try and pursue a relationship just with her as a possible girlfriend. We’ve been seeing each other on and off twice a week for the last couple months before the covid hit and now stay in touch via text and have started to see each other again as of last week. Our relationship if you wanna call it that seems to be taking a change and I don’t quite understand why… before the covid hit we were able to spend time together, be intimate physically, and go out on the occasional lunch or and or dinner date. But lately it seems that each time I am engaging her, she brings up a financial need: last week she needed to get a new pair of shoes, this week she has major work needing to be done on her car. I sent her links as far as where there were some good shoe sales, thinking I would be helpful that way. I gave her recommendations for two mechanics that I trust and thought that would also be helpful as well. But, that doesn’t seem to be good enough. Yesterday she asked me if I thought that my being a good boyfriend meant that I shouldn’t occasionally treat her to nice things. She also mentioned this morning that if I was in a situation where I needed help with my automobile she’d be willing to do what she could financially. But, that doesn’t seem to be good enough. Yesterday she asked me if I thought that my being a good boyfriend meant that I shouldn’t occasionally treat her to nice things. She also mentioned this morning that if I was in a situation where I needed help with my automobile she’d be willing to do what she could financially. So it just seems as if that she’s trying to get our relationship to cross a certain line. Now for the record, I have no problem paying for drinks if we go out, and I don’t mind either going dutch on lunch, or dinner, or one takes care of one, one takes care of the other. So am I wrong in thinking that, making financial supportive moves like giving her money for new shoes, or giving her money towards her car repair, might be too big of a step...? I could see maybe a loan....But when I floated that idea her response was “how about I not loan you any p****y?” and to me, as shocking as that seemed, I was like is this what we’ve done, moved to a “pay for play” situation...? I’m scratching my head trying to wrap my head around this. I mean she has a man, who lives and works out of state. So to me, that means she has a significant other, like i do. So he should be handling those major responsibilities like that. Any advice I’d gladly appreciate. But it seems to me like if we are moving in this direction, it’s time for me to move on, because that’s not what I’m looking for.

New Year’s Eve Swingers Party At Sacramento Hotel Gets Mixed Reaction You just never know where a party might be. Checking into a Doubletree with a family might be more than you thought it would be.

As always thanks to all who have given us Sagely advice, the wife and I greatly appreciate the input and insight we get here. So, just a story about a recent Meet and Greet I'd like to share: The wife and I met with this couple that the wife reguarly posts in topics ( the husband like myself works a lot and doesn't have much time for social media), and they seemed really nice and were presentable enough. So as we were discussing adventures in the LS, the topic got around to what we ( each couple) are looking for. Well they are looking for a LTFWB situation with a lady, single or married, and haven't had much luck. We mentioned that we were looking for a couple that we could get along with, be friends first then develop into FWB. The lady then commented that "Darn! if only you guys were a bit more open." as she stroked my wife's arm. Holding my glass in my hand, I said then " Darn! If only you guys had your insecurities worked out, and weren't so close minded, maybe we would be." She turned red and we thanked them for the conversation and moved on to meeting others. On the way home the wife and I didn't talk much about it, but i mulled it over today... Every couple I meet always says "it's so hard, sometimes I just want to give up..." but to me, it would seem if you opened up more, you'd have more matches.... Couples who are stuck only looking for females, and striking out because their attracted to women in couples who are couple full swap, and saying their not successful... Couples who are looking for play partners, but then limit play partners due to HWP or Race..... It just strikes me as funny....if the LS was run like a job, with a boss /supervisor, and people were assigned to "depts" to make it work...a lot of these things would go away..... Oh well, if nothing else the LS has been very good for the occasional laugh and insight into the human psyche.... Have a great Holiday one and all!

I have a serious situation. My wife and I are middle-aged, and have been married to each other for about 6 years. We have always had problems with her extreme jealousy...paranoia..whatever...although I have always been faithful. A cashier can smile at me, and I can be in deep shit. We are now separated, she has filed for divorce, because she is convinced that I have been unfaithful to her...I was not. We do love each other, and the only problem we have is her jealousy...we are talking...we both want to be together with each other...but she says I will break her heart again..and I say that my actions have been entirely innocent...I'm just friendly with everyone...I don't need an extramarital affair to be happy. And I am at my wits end...this marriage is over, and that is really sad. Now, my wife is sexual...she loves sex. My thought is if we entered into a swinging relationship...or swinging lifestyle....maybe that would cure her jealousy...her worse fears would be realized, but there would be no dishonesty...we would be doing it with each others knowledge and approval...and since she is doing it ...how could she be jealousy...She can enjoy her sexuality...the jealousy problem hopefully would disappear...we could live together happy as a married couple...and while I don't need the swinging lifestyle....I would enjoy it. Please give me your thoughts, suggestions, etc, and if you live in north Atlanta area, possibly we can conspire to work towards making something happen. I have not discussed this with her...I think she would dismiss it, and possibly get angry, but if handled right....I see this as a solution to all the problems...win..win..win.. At least I would try it before I kiss my love goodbye.

I've been reading the archives tagging threads there and I came across a thread about someone swinging with a friend they owed money to. It got me thinking of the list of people you should probably NEVER swing with... Someone you owe money to Your boss Your subordinate I know some would say friends and family - I think it depends on the situation and who is involved. Who would be on your list of people you should never swing with?

Swingers sprayed stranger in face with bear repellent - Telegraph

Hi Y'all, Here we go again. I went to a party Saturday night. Laurie couldn't be with me. She had family obligations out of state. With both our schedules being so busy this is a problem we have faced before. If one of us can't be home for the party weekend, AND it's an crowd we know and trust, AND we both agree before hand, then we're free to go have fun. Having satisfied those requirements I went by myself. At the party was a couple we've known since we've been in the lifestyle. I've never had the chance to play with the lady. She's had some nusance health troubles and hasn't gotten naked at a party in a long time. Her husband has taken Laurie up to a play room a time or two though. I didn't go up there with them. They were within earshot and I trusted him so I didn't feel the need to supervise. As Saturday evening got going really good I went upstairs with her, her husband, and another lady. It started with the two girls playing and us guys taking pictures. (Great pics by the way.) After a while the other guy put the camera away and started playing with the other lady. I got busy with the other guy's wife. She didn't object. She made happy noises as it was going on. She cheerfully co-operated with my requests to change positions and such. It seemed to me that everybody was having a good time. I get a call from the guy today telling me that I need to apologize to her. She is upset. They have a rule that they only play with couples and since Laurie wasn't there that means I was a single and therefore out of bounds. I AM going to apologize to her. If she's not happy about what happened then I'm not happy about it either. This is supposed to be fun, not upsetting. I mentioned to the husband that if she'd given even the slightest sign that she wasn't happy with the situation I would have stopped immediately. I'm no rapist. A woman does not even need to tell me no. An apathetic response will send me looking for someone who is more interested in my attention. He said she won't say no. It's his job to enforce their agreed upon rules. I'm completely at a loss as to how I was supposed to know that she was not ok with this. I have considered them friends for a while. We've spent time with them in a non-sexual context. While I was laid up from my big surgery she was one of the internet chat buddies who kept me company. We've joked about me dragging her off into the bushes. I've even played with her in a soft swing kind of way from time to time. It never went any further than that until Saturday because of external circumstances. The first time I was recovering from major abdominal surgery and wasn't capable of anything vigorous. The second time we were about to have intercourse but someone came into the playroom that Laurie found so objectionable that she threw me the "We're leaving NOW" hand signal. Am I missing some warning sign that I should have seen? Is this odd? Can I expect this sort of drama on a regular basis? Laurie and I both just want to have fun but lately we feel like we're trapped in a soap opera. My first reaction to how to deal with this is to give her the apology she wants and be politely distant toward them in the future. Decline all invitations to spend time with either of them be it in a sexual or non-sexual context. I just don't want to do something like that out of ill temper over it though. What do you think?

Okay. A couple back stories before I get into the meat of the plot. A few years ago, I promised my boyfriend a threesome if a certain goal in his life was met. Well, the goal was indeed met, and I was help to the promise. I had always been bi-curious, and a threesome was a huge fantasy of his. He found a willing and attractive girl to join us, planned this whole evening out around it; and I chickened out. I just sort of felt forced into the situation or something, so I told him at the last minute I didn't want to do it. He wasn't mad or upset, he didn't give me any crap about it, he very graciously let it go. Fast forward to a year ago. I decided to return to school, and move across country. We had been living to together for four years; previous to our relationship, I wasn't sexual active, and we just decided it could be healthy for us to casually see other people. We both felt secure in our love for one another. But he instilled a don't ask don't tell policy, because even though he wanted me to enjoy myself he "didn't want those images in his head." So. Here is the issue. Last month, after an evening of heavy drinking, I had a threesome with my good friend here and her boyfriend. It was completely unprotected, and it happened a week before I was going to see the BF. I knew for certain this girl had unprotected sex with more than one partner, and I can only assume the same about her boyfriend. I know, it was in the top ten dumbest things I have ever done in my life! But it was an enjoyable experience and while I wish I had been more cautious, I don't regret it. Because the possibility existed I could have contracted an STD, I knew I had to tell him. But I totally panicked. Because of his insistence of not knowing about me sleeping with guys, and because of the failed promise of the threesome, I ended up only telling him half the truth. I told him I slept with my girl friend, and didn't mention her boyfriend was also involved. And now I'm not sure what to do about it! I feel like I've lied to him, and it's weighing very heavily on me. But now I feel more afraid to tell him the truth because of the time that has passed. He has a totally different idea about what happened. And maybe that's okay, I mean, he's the one who very adamantly stated he didn't want to think about me having sex with another guy, even if he knows it's probably happening. Under these terms, maybe I did the right thing, and told all he needed to know about the situation, but i get the looming feeling that this will come back to bite me in the ass. I know it would really hurt him to know my first group sex experience didn't include him. Thoughts? (Also, I got screened at Planned Parenthood, and I am all clear! Hurray!)

What are some obvious signs that you have seen that a couple you have met might not be ready to swing, or might be bearing drama..... 1. One partner talks down to the other 2. One partner talks badly about the other to you 3. They always seem to sit an armslength away, never touching each other. 4. One of them looks pissed off just to be there What other signs can you think of that a couple might be bearing drama?

It's the Mrs. I am having a hard concept with the no drama. I would think drama would be any negative conversations between/about the couple as a whole. I understand that having a fight about the activity when it's happening is drama. I get that walking out of a group pissed off, drama. Here is the issue. I have encounter a few women who decide to complain about their husbands prior relationships with other women or ex-wives. Just personal bullshit I could care less about. Does this also constitute drama in the lifestyle or are my expectations of what is exceptable conversation too high. Then again for some this is normal stuff. The mister and I really don't have ANY drama. Except who might be cooking dinner or taking the dogs out. I would really like some other opinions on the whole drama free issue.

I hope someone here can give some advice to 2 couples who have recently began a swinging adventure together. Couple one: Married, both new to this. Couple two: Engaged, he is new to swinging, she has had a few years experience. Here's the deal. Both males talk frequently in person, via phone and via email. They have been friends for several years. Both females recently met each other and the respective partners. After deciding we were comfortable taking this to a level of swinging, emailing became the normal mode of communication. However, one of the females really wasn't included in the majority of emails (not cc'd). When she found out, she expressed to the other 3 that she wanted and needed to be included. Rules were discussed but one female has been opposed to intimacy in the realm of kissing another's partner. OK for f/f but not m/f. She also opposes swapping - each going their own way. It took a lot for the other 3 to understand her reasoning - and really not sure if they really do. One female states the other female is constantly attacking her character. The female "charged" with doing so asks for proof in emails she wrote so she can possibly either explain what was taken wrong or accept responsibility for it and apologize. No proof ever given - only continual complaining about her. Here comes the biggest problem. Female finds out that other female is emailing her lover separately and there has also been private phone calls made between the two. She is told it is all innocent (by both parties). However, she is not comfortable with this and addresses all parties involved not to allow this to happen again (very angrily with later apologies). Two weeks later - it happens! The other male sees no problem with the private emails or phone calls. Major blow up takes place and couple decides things need to be put on hold. Expressed to all involved. Only a few weeks pass and there is the continued asking about this weekend, the next weekend etc. No plans were made, still needing some additional time. "Dear John" letter comes though last night by the couple asking to get together. Basically faulting the female with all the reservations for this happening. Everything is her fault with no specifics as to what she did to cause this. Here is my question....I am the one being blamed. I am also the one who has been in the swinging lifestyle on and off for 6 or so years. Never had these problems before. I am the one who has restrictions. And I am the one who has been excluded. The other female states she has lost her "mind set" not being allowed to speak to my partner privately. She cannot drop her pants (her lover's words) and have sex with someone without that mind set. I really, really need honest answers here with the little information I've provided. I cannot see how I am being so out of line asking that things be kept between all parties involved. I called it betrayal that they went behind my back not once but again after I brought it up to them. I call kissing too intimate for me to engage in with another man. I have no desire to separate and allow our partners to engage in emotional bonding. I'm beginning to wonder if this other couple is looking for a poly relationship rather than swinging. They did tell us upfront in the beginning they want to be exclusive. That has been respected. Is it acceptable to any of you out there to hold private emails and phone conversations with the opposite sex of your swinging party? I have been lashed out at so bad with emails today from them - words such as: "Manipulation of (insert lover's name) words she wrote about me, and I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF HER" and "I don't want to hurt you but this is not right for her to say the things she does about me". I am totally clueless as to what I may have said (recently) or done this time around. I'm not a complete idiot, I am an educated person - I would think I would know if I did something. I have practically begged each of them to give me a specific but they won't. I'm a mess here. Thanks for listening and hopefully giving me some guidance!

Oh boy.....new to the scene and we have been seeing another couple for about two months now. Very friendly, lots of calls and text messages, and both my wife and I have been getting along very well with our counter parts. However, while I like this woman, sexually it is not happening for me. I look forward to seeing her and get excitied for it, and we have a great time until we reach the bed room. While I have performed, each time there has been some type of mood killer via something that I find ill timed or, quite frankly, not sexy in the least. And without going into detail, this last time together was, well, one for the books. Additionally, there has been a lot of drama between the other couple which centers around their relationship and their activities with others. On some levels, my wife and I have been cast in the role of counselors. Generally speaking, I have no problem with this if I felt there was a payoff. I like helping if I can. But now I'm asking myself, what's in it for me? The answer was a cool woman and sex. The cool woman is still there but the sex is getting harder and harder with less satisfaction. So, to this point the situation seem pretty clear, right? Sounds like we should at least take a break and possibly end it. However, due to various issues my wife has not yet gone all the way with him, and she is excited to do so, so what do i do? Unselfishly my thought is to bite the bullet and continue for a few more weeks taking one for the team until my wife gets what she wants. However, that charade is not pleasant to me as I know it will hurt the other woman even further, not to mention how I will feel. On the other hand, should I expect my wife to be admittedly disappointed and end it along with me? This is the first couple we have been with so from that perspective there is emotional tie in for her. After week one with this couple I sensed many of these issues (primarily the drama) and suggested to my wife we end it then, quickly. But she thought I was being silly and she liked him and wanted to continue. I wish I would have listened to my gut then and gotten out as it would have been far easier and less "costly" at that time. I really don't know what to do and would appreciate any feedback or suggestions you may have. Thanks

Buckle your seatbelts because this will be a long drive! A little more than a year ago, we met this couple; we'll call them Bill and Hillary. We met a married woman, who I'll call Monica (husband = Mark). Both of these couples have profiles on SLS. I chatted quite a bit with Bill. Bill introduced me to Monica. We chatted a bit as well. Bill invited us out to a bar to meet and socialize but we could never get our schedules straight as we all have kids. A couple of months after chatting with him for the 1st time, I find out that Bill is sleeping with Monica and neither Hillary nor Mark knows about it. Red flag to me. I asked why their spouses knew nothing of their affair. I can not understand why someone in the lifestyle would choose to cheat. But I digress; Bill told me that Hillary was slow to come around. I told him that you really should go at her pace. Monica told me that Mark doesn't like to meet new people and wants to keep it to their small circle. I told her I thought that was weird. I don't have a problem with someone keeping it small but when you don't know anyone, to not want to meet anyone else, what does that say? I became friends (as best as you can just online) with Monica. She told me how she was ready to get a divorce. I was trying to be supportive. We had a lot in common otherwise, kids same age, same vertical hobbies etc. We finally were able to meet last October or November. We went to a bar and there were 7-10 other swinging couples there. By this time, the affair was over or close to over. Bill and Hillary were there. Monica was there without Mark. Several of us were invited back to one of the other couples homes to play. My husband went upstairs to join Bill, Hillary, and Monica, while I stayed downstairs. Perhaps, 45 minutes later, Bill, Hillary and Monica run out without even saying goodbye. Hillary had quite a bit to drink, too much if you ask me. The way they left really was rude and it changed the mood of the house, so we left immediately after. When questioned about it the next day, Bill said that Hillary was upset because she was not interested in playing with the host, who was downstairs chatting with me, and needed to leave at that very moment. Ok. A couple of months later, we got together with Bill, Hillary, Monica, Mark, and another couple to go bowling. We had a good time. From there, we went back to Monica and Mark's home to play. It was really uncomfortable because it was a room of newbies who thought it was a good idea to play spin the bottle. :rollseyes We did a lot of 2-minute separation stuff. I put a stop to it because I am not bi and the people who were left behind in the living room we suggesting that we (the gals) play. I told them that I was uncomfortable playing without my husband within reach. The lights dimmed and we got busy. Again, Hillary was really drunk. My husband played with her and she was not verbally responsive to his touch but had enough of a sexual response to not be labeled a cold fish...or is it a dead fish...can't remember. During the following week, there was some drama online about the male half of the other couple not being attractive to the ladies. I told them that they should just tell him no. No still means no. But it was a big to do and frankly I was irritated at the childishness that was going on. I told them that if they can't tell him no, then don't invite him. Also, during that week, Bill told me and Monica that he did not want to kiss or be kissed because it was too personal for him. I told him that was ok with me and thanked him for sharing his boundary. We also discussed Hillary's interest in my husband. It was very nice to find someone that was interested in him that he also was interested in. The next weekend, we got together at Monica and Mark's house to play without the "offending" couple. When we arrived, the drinking had been going on for at least a couple of hours. Hillary kept calling herself the drunk girl and Bill said some disparaging remarks to her. It was becoming obvious that she needed to be drunk to do it and he is a control freak. Monica was broken, so she was just a giver that night. Before we sat down to play a sexy board game, I suggested that we talk about each couple's boundaries. That way there would be no uncomfortable parts of the night. The other 2 couples balked at the conversation making it a dead point. I know as you are reading this, you are wondering, WHY did you keep seeing these people? Cuz, I'm asking myself the very same thing right now. For a little background, we are all under 30 and in our community, swingers under 30 are an extreme rarity. We paired off in the living room, my husband and Hillary (because she had no interest in Mark), me and Mark and Bill and Monica. There were a couple of times that Mark tried to enter me without a condom, so I stopped playing with him. It didn't seem at the time, to be an overly aggressive thing, just that he was so excited that he couldn't get his shit straight. I brushed it off. My husband was using my toy on Hillary. His arm was really tired and she had not finished yet. I suggested to Mark that he tag my hubby out. He did. Mark and Hillary played for a while after that. The next day online, Bill IM's me to say that we will not be getting together with you anymore if Monica and Mark are there. What it boiled down to was that Hillary said that Mark went further than she wanted to go. I asked Bill if she told Mark no. He said she shifted her body and he spread her legs and kept going. And she let him. This got back to Monica and Mark, with Mark feeling devastated because he was accused of rape when he was in high school. It got really ugly. Unfortunately, Bill and Hillary are not open people. You cannot get a straight answer from either of them. I told Bill that Hillary needs to learn to say no. He said she's afraid of what others will think about her. I told him, does she really care what someone who forces her thinks? We would support her. But I don't think that is what really happened because a couple of days later, Hillary was over it and wanted to get together again. In hindsight, it's one of 2 things: 1. She is so submissive that she played with Mark and did not say no (he's not a mind reader), Bill asked her how it was, she commented to him that she was a little uncomfortable and he blew it all out of proportion making it to more than it ever was and she finally set him straight or 2. She changed her position on the subject because of pressure from Bill because he still wanted to play with us and Monica. Still not sure. Also, he complained that Monica kissed him after he made it clear that he didn’t want to be kissed. She maintains that he kissed her so she kissed him back. Who knows who did what. In the ensuing weeks, I spend a lot of time instant messaging with Bill and Monica. Mark and Hillary do not get online much. Monica tells be about what happened between them while they were having their affair. She tells me that he said that he and Hillary were getting a divorce and he was moving back to another state. He went so far to tell her what his flight number and time was. But he didn’t go. He also started flirting with one of Monica’s co-workers. They went out on a date and he offered to drive her home. He found her house without her telling him where she lived. It creeped her out. She assumed that he had been stalking her. Fast forward to 2 months ago, there is a new club in town that caters to couples only. It’s quite a nice place to go. We suggested they go out there sometime. We made plans to meet there. The whole time they were there, Hillary looked miserable. She drank a lot as usual. She sat on the couch. My husband asked her to play and they went into a playroom and played. Then she came back out and sat on the couch looking miserable. It was noticeable to the many others that went to that party. But it wasn’t just Hillary that was miserable. Bill was too. He commented several times about the ladies that he was interested in and I kept encouraging him to go for it but he said all he wanted to do was play with me. I wasn’t interested. He had gone from being fun and confident to very needy. We had to leave early because of a baby sitting arrangement. I heard from some of our other friends that were there that she didn’t leave the couch until they left and he didn’t leave the bar. The following weekend, we went to a social at a bar. We met Bill and Hillary for dinner beforehand. It was Hillary’s birthday so my husband told our server who brought Hillary dessert and sang to her. Hillary looked mighty uncomfortable and had protested about being sung to. We thought that it was a playful protest, but it really bothered her. We went to the social in 2 cars. We were already there when they arrived and the tension in their car looked so thick, you could cut it with a knife. They held up the wall at the social, not chatting with anyone and abruptly left about 2 hours later without saying goodbye. Soon after they leave, I get a call from him asking if we would take Hillary home if he brought her out to us at the club. I told him I would. After I got off the phone call, my husband and I both shook our heads and said that is definitely not the way to handle their situation. We didn’t want her to come out without him especially considering the circumstances. My husband and I had spent a great deal of time talking about Bill and Hillary. The main topic was that they didn’t seem to play with anyone but us. We didn’t want to become their crutch. We wanted them to be able to branch out and meet others. During that next week, there was a get together at a local comedy club. We could not make it but Bill and Hillary did. Apparently, they had a great time. Things were starting to look up for them. They were coming out of their shell. That weekend, we went to the new club. It was Bill’s birthday. He spent the whole night with a sour look on his face. Hillary actually got her butt off the couch. They took Monica with them to the club without Mark because he was out of town. Monica spent the whole night alone. I felt so bad for her, I kept checking on her. Bill and Hillary were incredibly rude. They took Monica as their guest and left her hanging. During the next week, I Imed with Bill and Monica. Monica said that they invited her to go to the club in 2 weeks with them. I asked her why. Why would they invite her and why would she want to go. It was obvious they weren’t taking her there to play with her. They spent absolutely no time with her. What was she gaining from being there? She said that we both know that they are not upfront about what they want. I told her that if it was me, I would straight-out ask them what their intentions are. That way, she knows. Bill and I went to a swingers get together at a bar 2 weeks in a row without our spouses. They both knew we were going. I would have gone without Bill but it was more fun to have someone I knew to talk to. We had a really good time. During the week, I IM Bill and ask how their weekend was, how Hillary was doing etc. Bill got super irritated with me for being so personal. I told him I wasn’t asking because I wanted to have sex with her or because my husband wanted to have sex with her, just because I care that someone is having a bad time. He was an asshole to me and I got off line. Come to find out, he said that he was upset that several weeks ago, my husband took his wife to a play area without him the 1st time we went to the club together. He said that from now on, they only play together. I told him that was fine. I was glad that he told me. Otherwise, we would never know. We aren’t mind readers. I told him to put himself into my shoes. He said he can’t because he doesn’t care that much. Asshole. I told him that I figure that now that they have new swinger friends, I guess that they have no need for us anymore and he’s pushing my buttons to piss me off enough to avoid them. I think that he was starting to feel something for me and perhaps being an asshole is his way of backing off. It is definitely reminiscent of how he treated Monica after they stopped seeing each other privately. So, this past Saturday, I get a short IM from him making sure we were bringing alcohol to replace some that we drank a couple of weekends before. I said yes and he logged off. We are at the club and Bill, Hillary and Monica walk in. I caught a glimpse of them as I was walking downstairs. They got the tour and came downstairs. They stood not more than 2 feet away from me and neither of them said anything to me. Cold shoulder. Monica said hi. I thought, GREAT. I spent most of my time that night avoiding them as I just wanted to avoid drama. So, now, I’m feeling uncomfortable. They are friends with the people that we are friends with. They are seeing the nice Bill and Hillary not the asshole that he’s being to us. And if I say anything, I’m causing drama. I don’t want that. I think that he doesn’t want to play with me anymore…that is perfectly ok with me because all he does is piss me off. But, I think that Hillary is still interested in playing with my husband but Bill has put his foot down and made it impossible to do so. Plus, I saw Bill playing with someone else at the club while his wife was upstairs. So much for only playing together. So, I guess my question is twofold, what the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more? I know that he will show his true colors to our friends sooner or later. How do I cope with it b4 they figure it out? Bill and Hillary are the new meat, so everyone is interested in meeting them. Thanks for reading this.

We had some old time friends over. And we always do g/g play with them. But the female half said she wanted to try more. But I did question that a bit. She just didn't seem ready and to me maybe never will be. I talked to my husband about it. But he just wasn't getting that same feeling. I told him I would hate to killl a good friendship. And he agreed. So we both talked to that couple over and over again asking them all kinds of questions. So even in doubting I went into the night with an open mind. I definitly wouldn't have minded a full swap night with them but I didn't want anything sour between us either KWIM. So of course the guys were kind of pushy about it at first but playfully. And she just seemed so unsure to me. But she does wear the pants in her relationship so I didn't worry about her husband pushing her just me and my husband. We have always been open about things we like and she knows we are meeting new people. So I just was worried she is trying to compete with others or something. She can get that way sometimes. So we started the night with me and her like normal. But then she moved to be with my husband. Which we have done soft swapping with them once. SO I thought things would be cool. But me and her husband were watching her and my husband for a bit will rubbing eachother. Well I guess she didn't want us to watch. Next thing I know she grabs me by the freakin neck and throws me at her husband cock! I was piss her husband was pissed and so was mine. I don't know what she was thinking. So we were like what was that! She was like well I don't want my husband to feel left out. He was like I wasn't. Ok so then we talk about it and move on. Basically I got her husband off and her and mine husband were still playing. SO me and her husband tried to watch again. And then she started saying more crap why aren't we doing this or that. SO then we are like you two want sometime alone or what. SO I went to the kitchen her husband went upstairs to use th bathroom. And she starting having fun with my hsuband gain yeah! Her husband comes back down and she starts playing with both. I'm happily watching all of this. That's one of my biggest turn ons. So then she starts yelling where is Jess blah blah. So I was like well I was watching. She starts saying how she wants me to fuck her husband okkkkkkkkkkkkk. SO I go up stairs to get some stuff and was on my way back down. She starts yelling at me. I finally just said ok you know what you are starting to piss me off and you really are making me uncomfortable. (I don't think she wanted her husband to see her and minehusband together) they are completely two different sizes her husband being the smaller one and she doesn't want him to feel bad. Also she has never been with anyone other than her husband. Ok so anyways I said you are making this uncomfortable for me and I am sure I am not the only one. You are just making this to hard and it's supposed to be fun. So of course silents hits the room I feel like the big elephant standing there. I go up stairs cause no one says a word. My husband follows me. I told him I was sorry probably shouldn't gone off like that. But I just couldn't deal anymore. And when I get like that I just blow. And he knows. He said he couldn't beleive how she was acting. It told him how I knew this wasn't a good idea and I was afraid of this. She is a really intess person when she is stressing. So we talked and I came back down stairs and told them I was sorry for what I said and how I said it. I truely was sorry for how it came out. I was just so uncomfortable. So we talked with them about how we felt of why she was acting that way. The talk went well. Then I asked to speak with her husband alone. Because her and my husband talk all the time they play around and goof off. They are just way more comfortable with eachother in general. Her husband is very quite and shy. So it was a nice talk. He told me alot of things I didn't know of how he felt. And I told him I need to hear things. I love to be talked to dirty and I need to know my boundries I can't just guess haha. We have known eachother for 2 years. So then I talked with her again one and one. And that went well. SO then we ended up having a pretty good night. I just had to share and get it off my chest. We have been with another couple and had a great time all around. And we just had such a hard time that night but it still turned out well. And we all could still hung and laugh in the morning together. They just really need to work on thier communication skills with us and eachother. She was very reserved though with my husband. And I hope she learns to loosen up and just let go a bit. But I think she is afraid of offending her husband. Becuase of this size. Which I have told it's a non issue for me and he does other things quite well anyways well thanks for reading my expeirence. Comments are welcomed.

I've been noticing something new at the club lately - husbands who come to the club, drink, play pool, hang out, whatever - while their wives sneak upstairs to play with other women, single men, or whatever strikes their fancy. More often than not, the husband is in a foul mood while this is going on... I know that for some couples this is cool - and the husbands don't really care. But most of the husbands do seem to care. In fact, they seem downright agitated. One wife we knew would sneak upstairs with single men while her husband basically had his back turned... He'd notice she was gone and go barging into play rooms until he found her... And a fight would ensue... Not hot... The other couples we've seen seem to be in agreement with it, but at the same time, the husband looks rejected when the wife is off doing her thing. We're more comfortable in the club environment now, so we see more than we used to. We're more aware, I guess, and this "phenomenon" is a bit surprising to us. It seems awfully common... In fact, the more I think of it, the more examples of it that I can come up with. Is this inevitable "dark side" of the old saying "the husband gets them in, the wife keeps them in"? Is this a Pandora's box that some couples open; one that is ultimately not a very healthy thing? Does swinging start out for the couple - only to end up being about one partner's kink? For us - we will only and always play together... Or not at all... The funny thing is - some of these couples we've played with... And when we talked to them the first time, they each one (without exception) agreed with us that they only play together. But - the next time we see them, wifey is sneaking upstairs by herself with a playmate. How common is this? Do you guys see it at your clubs or is this something unique here in Columbus?

Okay, here's a humdinger for you all. A little background information. We've been playing with a couple by the name of John and Jane. We've only played with them a couple of times, but we all enjoyed ourselves and had fun with each other. John and Jane were not married, but were a long-time "committed couple". We had a date to go out to the movies one night and hang out at their place when we got a message on the machine that they couldn't make it tonight. No big deal, we thought. They both had children from prior relationships, and things do come up. But we didn't hear from them afterwards. E-Mails sent to both of their accounts revealed that they had a fight over undisclosed reasons, and we currently not talking to each other. Both swore that neither we nor the Lifestyle had anything to do with it. Both also told us that this had happened before, and after a cool-down period, they get back together. While we tried to stay in contact with both of them, after a while John stopped answering our e-mails. Jane, on the other hand, kept in touch with us. Jane finally wrote us one day, about two months after this all started, telling us that it appears that although she still cares for him, it appeared over between each other, and that she thought it was time to move on. But she mentioned that she would still like to play with Amelia and I in a 3-way capacity (both Amelia and her are bi). I don't want to betray John, but he appears to have gone incommunicado on us. Jane's a fun person to be with, and fun to play with as well. What do you all think we should do?

What are warning signs for y'all that a swinger couple you've met or are talking to online might be unstable?

This is a question for the experienced swingers here. My wife and I have been looking into swinging for awhile now, and trying to educate ourselves on the lifestyle. Which I'd have to say has been made much, much easier thanks to this site But our question is: Is it all worth it? Look at the issues at hand on this site: We met with another couple and they broke the rules, this guy didn't use a condom, my wife/husband is jealous, what if our friends/family find out, this guy shagged us and won't call, how do you find a good match etc.. etc.. In the movies it's all very straight forward; there's a party everybody's happy, a big swap fest takes place and then they do it again. But in real life it really seems like swinging is not just a lot of work, but it causes so many people more problems and issues then they had before they started, and its all about sex... is it really worth it?