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In responding today to a post today by bear_n_bunny regarding open marriages vs. swinging, I referred to a related topic that Mrs. LC and I have long wondered about--how most swingers feel about getting to know their playmates vs. just hooking up for sex. Mrs. LC and I fall somewhere in the middle. We're generally turned off by the prospect of what Erica Jong would have called a "zipless fuck"--nameless, entirely impersonal, etc.--and we avoid situations in that direction. Yet, we have no desire to build a relationship beforehand, either. The prospect of "dating" before playing in hopes that everyone gels on a personal level is something we don't want to deal with. Nor do we particularly want to be friends afterwards. We prefer to keep friends and playmates separate. For us, if we meet, have dinner and/or drinks, and find basic chemistry exists, then that's all we need--or want, really. So, we're curious where everyone else stands. Is it necessary for you to be "friends" before you play? Are you on the other end of the spectrum, preferring to play and then say goodbye? Or are you somewhere in the middle? We've seen folks express opinions all over the spectrum, and we're curious about the norm.

My wife and I starting playing unexpectedly with some close friends who are a couple about 4 years ago. It was a random thing that happened one night. After the initial encounter I sat my wife down and discussed rules, expectations, dynamic, etc. We agreed we would be soft swap, anything was ok except we only fuck each other and only play with both present. I suggested we discuss what we talked about with the other couple. My wife didn't want to do that. She was ok with us being aware and having our rules. I reluctantly agreed. Many encounters later all is good. The dynamic has been when the wives are ready to play we play. I've wanted to be a little more proactive and actually plan play dates, figuring the anticipation would be great, we could have some sexy discussion, and we could communicate more openly with the other couple. I've always been shit down saying the spontaneous nature was working fine. This last weekend we got together and I found myself with the other wife straddling me asking if she could fuck me. My wife chimed in and said it was ok if she could fuck the other husband. I said no, nope, no we have rules and this breaks them. We had discussed that rules can change but not in the heat of the moment. I know without a doubt my wife does not want me fucking anyone else, and she definitely does not want to fuck the other husband. She's fine playing with him but not all the way. I knew she would regret it. We moved on and had a good night. The next morning my wife was so appreciative of me sticking to the rules. The other couple though were confused. I had to explain to the other wife we have rules. She was cool with that, but maybe my wife and I should revisit the rules. I asked my wife if she wanted to augment the rules. She said no she was good. We are strictly soft swap. I'm cool with that. I asked to have an open discussion with the other couple. I asked both my wife and the other wife. They said they wanted to keep it like it was. The ladies initiate, guys follow suit. I suggested that we plan more it could be fun and open more communication, more fun I was shot down again. I was told to not overthink things. That everything is fine. Am I overthinking things? Am I always going to be the rules enforcer? How do I work at more planning because that's something I want with out sounding crazy and over thinking?

Just curious on what others take are on swinging and friendship. Is it really possibly for a couple to have a true friendship with another couple, if you play with others. We have found that we have swinger friends that we do not swing with yet it is difficult to maintain a true friendship with people that you play with, due to emotions (jealousy etc), if you are not exclusive with them. What's everyone's take on this?

Very happily married over 20 years. Started in the lifestyle about 2 years ago. We’ve met some great people and have enjoyed all of our experiences. We have a great sex life and a great marriage. We love spending time together and we have a great sex life as well. So what’s the problem? There is a show I have been dying to see out of town. It requires a plane ride and a night or 2 in a hotel. Due to work schedules, my wife can’t go. I asked a few friends but to no avail. We have one couple that we’ve known for about a year. We get together with them about once a month fir dinner or whatever and playtime. Wife suggested that I ask them to go with me. We talked about the possibility of her being able to go and him not being able due to work. So I asked and sure enough he said he couldn’t but she would love to go. My wife was ok with that as was her husband. Now, we have never played alone, only as a foursome. We also never communicate privately, everything is in a group chat for all to see. There are no secrets. I should also say that my wife really likes her and respects her and really enjoys her company. Well the minute I booked the flights, my wife’s demeanor changed. We talked and she basically said she needed time to process it. She was a little distant towards me for a couple of days. I didn’t bring it up again for about a week. We talked some more and I told her, it’s not that important to me and I wanted to cancel the whole thing if it upset her. That actually made her mad and she said she doesn’t want me to cancel and she’s fine. I feel like she now thinks she’s backed into a corner. I feel I am backed into a corner as well. The concert isn’t till June so I have time to decide. I want to go but not if it upsets my wife. On a side note, my wife has played alone a couple of times, I have not. She also has never done an overnight. It’s now been a little over 2 weeks since the flights have been booked. Wife has been in a great mood, very loving towards me and all seems back to normal. She has even chatted with the other girl a little and it’s been very sexy and playful, but no mention of the trip. She now really seems ok with the whole thing. I plan on revisiting the convo next week. The trip itself would be a lot of fun, but the last thing in the world I want is to upset my wife. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Normally, we don't look at the Craigslist Ads; we've found them to be predatory and full of people looking for money. That said, we saw this one recently. It's not the usual, in that I don't think they're looking for play partners -- but Holy Cow! -- the sentiment totally resonated with us (well, me (the male-half), anyways). Almost (!) makes me wonder if I should rethink why we're always looking for new partners. Here it is: Anyone want to offer their thoughts?

Anyone ever heard of couchsurfing? I just found the site couchsurfing.com and the people on there sound like a bunch of awesome, energetic, fun-loving free spirits. Travelling seems to be to couchsurfers what sex is to swingers. I'm reading about it and thinking what a sexy idea it would be to combine the two! Doesn't that sound like fun? Travelling the world, meeting new friends, and fucking your way across the globe? LOL I'm all talk. I've never even been on a plane before. But I sure like the idea.

Wife and I are about to have our first experience. She has a friend that we both know and trust. There is attraction there and she is willing to "put her toe in the water" in the form of a threesome with this guy. She wants to have a first experience go well. We have talked about taking the plunge extensively and we feel we are ready. The only points of hesitation are the fact we do not want to ruin a friendship and his wife does not know. We don't want to be part of ruining a marriage. However, he has stepped out on his wife in the past and is willing to play with us. Do any of you have experiences or advice on this?

We have vanilla friends who know about our swinging adventures. The wife is my best friend. She would very much like to have sexual adventures. Her husband is a nice guy, not judgmental, but pretty uptight. We've been friends for about 16 years. I told her 2 years ago that we swing (and she told her husband which is fine). We spend a lot of time with them and have traveled with them in the past. They've met people we know through swinging. They wanted to go to a hotel NYE party with us, but I told them it wasn't an environment for people just looking or people new to the scene. I did tell them we would take them to the club sometime if they wanted. They haven't said anything more about that and I haven't offered again. We're going to Desire this fall and they were thinking about going (it's sold out though). My husband says I shouldn't tell them that Desire is great or that we have a good time swinging because he feels if they got into it and things went south in their relationship it would be partly our fault. We would never play with them. My feeling is that I like having someone to talk to and I shouldn't have to censor myself with my friend when she asks me questions. I don't feel like I'm actively encouraging them to get involved, but I do really love swinging so I can't just say, "Don't do it!" like my husband say I should. Have you ever been in this situation? Do you think I should stop talking to my friend about anything swing related?

My wife and I have played for years with my best friend. Usually starts in the hot tub and then progresses to his bedroom. His off/on girlfriend often joins in. We all go to nudist clubs together. Yes, he likes to see the two women together. He just found out that I am bi-sexual. I have never made a move on him or even suggested it. After all these years he sent me a vicious e-mail ending our friendship over this. He ended it with You Suck, Keep on Sucking. I am at a crossroads on whether or not to try to iron this out or just let it go and realize the 20 year friendship is over.

Scenario: You and your spouse go out on a date with another couple. You hit it off with your playmate, your spouse hits it off with their playmate, but you and your spouse's playmate don't really jive. In fact, you kinda feel like they are patronizing you and just putting up with you to get into your spouse's pants. My question: Does this impact you, the situation, your feelings about your spouse with that person, the whole grouping, etc? Or could you not care less as long as you and your spouse are happy with the people with whom you are with? Ok, Scenario B: Same exact setup as above, but the difference is that in this scenario you aren't hitting it off with your playmate. I mean, you two are fine chatting, but there isn't any chemistry for playing. Your spouse and their playmate are still totally into each other, but you still feel like your spouse's playmate is just putting up with you. Does this change your feelings or the situation? I guess the main question: How "good" do you have to feel about the person your spouse is with, or does it even matter since you're not the one playing with them?

I've been reading the archives tagging threads there and I came across a thread about someone swinging with a friend they owed money to. It got me thinking of the list of people you should probably NEVER swing with... Someone you owe money to Your boss Your subordinate I know some would say friends and family - I think it depends on the situation and who is involved. Who would be on your list of people you should never swing with?

It seems like more and more often lately we are finding out that friends (or people we know) in the vanilla world are swingers too. In the last 2 years.... 1. Saw posts on a Yahoo Group that led me to find out that two different friends of mine were hitting up one of the local swinger clubs. One of the clubs happened to be the one we go to, so I figured I should let the friend know (before we ran into each other). 2. Had a friend call me a few months ago and outright ask me. Why? Oh because she and her gf had signed up on SLS and found our profile. "I always thought you guys were", she said. 3. Got a message on FB from a guy I went to HS with about how they'd seen us on "the other site" and hadn't ever contacted us. But, now that we'd friended each other on FB I guess he figured he should tell me. I never would have recognized him on SLS until I saw his FB picture (people change a lot). 4. Today, I get a message on FB from the male half of a couple we've hung out with a couple of times. The first time we met them I told Pet I thought they "looked familiar" and wondered if they were swingers. Today I get a message from the husband telling me "we've dropped our account on SLS, just thought I should let you know". Um... well geez, I never knew you had one, but I do now...lol. And, I very well may be missing one, ya never know. I'm starting to think that if you think they might be swingers.... they probably are.

I know you've probably seen this one before. If so point me there. If not please help us out. Here is the scenario. My wife has developed a serious crush on a male friend of ours, and would like to swing with him. His wife is hot and I'm completely in to her as well and would jump at the oppourtnity. The trouble is we don't know if they swing or would be into swinging. We see this couple regularly at parties, the baseball field and are kids play together. I know their relationship started with her having an affair with him on her ex-husband. Ultimately we value their friendship above all else and would want to do nothing that would jepordize their relationship together or ours with them. How should we approach the proposition of a swap with themor should we?

Hello everyone! My fiancee and I have been together for about four-and-a-half years and will be getting married in May (I'm 22 and she is 23). We recently started talking about swinging (and both of us were interested) and my fiancee mentioned a male friend of hers from high school. She said that he had a big crush on her and would love to have sex with her. I know this guy as well. All three of us were in a small band in high school, but my fiancee knows him better than I do. He's a little older than I am, maybe by about two years I think. He's divorced and has a little boy. This would be our first swing, so I want some advice as far as handling the situation and what we should do (and if we should even go through with this situation). I know that I definitely want to hang out with him before I even say yes. I want to make sure he's mature and respectful. This also probably won't happen until well after a few months that we get married, so it's possible that it might not be our first swing, but likely. Please, any advice would be appreciated. And if I left out any details that you need to know, just ask!

Apologies in advance, this is a long one but I would appreciate your opinions! I've had a close work bud that turned into a really close family friend for the past 3 years. I no longer work with him but we remain very close. I think of him as my brother and I know that J also loves him too. (I'll refer to him as VF.) Not in the same way that she loves me, but more or less like a brother as well. We pretty much feel the same way about him, but I'm not interested in him sexually. We have a lot of things in common and have pretty much hung out whenever there has been any free time for a few years now. Almost like a bunch of dates that we went on as a couple with just him is how I've described it in the past. More about us: W = Man J = Woman We've only been into the LS for a few months, but we have been having a lot of fun (and a few bad experiences too). We haven't fully swapped yet, but that day is coming, and we're really not in a huge rush. Its not that we're not ready or anything its just that we haven't found the right mesh. We've basically kissed (she's really into that) and I've gotten some oral action, as well as a few soft swapping situations. We also almost got into a full swap situation but J wasn't into it. I might make an introduction post and I'll link it here in due time if you'd like to know our full story. In this situation it was mainly me going at it with the other girl, with all clothes on, and instead of jealousy or feeling something else 'silly' I was redefining the word 'hot' inside of my head. I looked over though and she wasn't into the dude and so an abrupt halt was called to the proceedings and we went back to soft swapping. An epiphany of sort though occurred that night because it wasn't about ME doing something with the other woman but it was more along the lines of US having a blast with each other. That's why I stopped when I got the "look" and it didn't bother me one wit that I couldn't continue with the other woman. Fast forward to me waking up this morning and what should pop into my head? Fantasies! I remember watching an Skinimax soft core porn when I was a teen and it was all about how the two girls who were best friends decided to have fun with the husband. At first it was just the wife and she put a blindfold on the guy and kept kissing him, then she sort of tagged the friend and she started kissing him and at first he was like all "Wahhh?" but he went with it, and then the wife came back and started kissing his chest and...you get the rest. So I started thinking about how like guys really do have an attraction/curiosity to their mate's friends. I mean, I had to hold so much together to never bang the shit out of my ex GF's sister. And she was always getting me into certain situations that I'm sure she knew were giving me raging boners... YIKES! Ergo, why wouldn't females have the same fantasy? Except in my case we have a bonafide best friend in our midst who we both care for ... holy shit! Ding ding ding we got a winner! Maybe?! So now I have it playing around in my head for 3 hours this morning and J keeps wondering why I have this grin on my face because I'm thinking about how I can go propose this to my bud. I'm thinking all about how we're going to be just sitting on the couch, then I'll just start maybe making out with the wife a bit, then try to grab VF's hand and plant it on her boob, and whisper something like "hall pass" while trying not to laugh. Then I'm thinking about how turned on both of them would be and how excited my wife would be and I wonder if after a bit maybe she'd call me up, or not, and how "hot" the evening would be. Course, this probably wouldn't be the way it would play out at all but it's my head people! Shit always works exactly the way I want it to You see, I know he's clean, great person, has hangups like most people do but he's my best male friend. My wife is my best friend as well. I figure what a fun gift of sorts I could give them, would be a fantasy that they would remember for a long time. I think that the only reason I wouldn't be involved is if he wasn't ok with another male around or if it would make him uncomfortable or unable to get it up or something. I also know that he's into the wife, and I've caught him eying her with the "kissy face" that pretty much sums up his desire. I've already talked with the wife about it and she's expressed her curiosity and it kind of makes total sense to me if you look at the fantasy up above that I got into so much as a teen. I'm going to have to give you more back-story here as it is warranted for him. You see I inadvertently hooked him up with a girl about 8 months back. And she's quite a bore, no same interests, not attractive, not smart, really judgy (meaning: likes to judge others) and mean. We're both baffled why the hell he would be interested in her but we both think it comes down to that he's had 1 serious other girlfriend and this girl now has him ringed in with his cock. He's 30+ years old. I always thought he'd hit it and quit it, but she's still around and it's just all weird. I think it's mainly due to fear that he'll be lonely and this is as good as it is going to get (that's pretty much what he's told me). I think his main problem is that he's so introverted that it is very hard for him to approach girls. I think if he could get past that he'd have no problem as he's very successful and has a great heart. Oh I also helped him lose 50+ pounds too. Rrrreooorww! So there that is, he's got a girlfriend and that's one hang up that might turn him off. No problemo, I respect that even though who in the hell could resist my wife?? The other thing that got me thinking that time is running out is that this psycho biatch seriously started talking aloud this past weekend about "having kids" and "buying a house together". PUUUUKE!!! I talked with him after and said: "Really this is it? You wouldn't fuck anyone else out there?" "No, I would" "Buying houses dude?" "I'm going to buy a house if I want one." Well OK then, that's really inconclusive. I figure if there's ever a time to do this it should be soon. I don't want to screw around with anyone's marriage. I already know she is going to be the super jealous type so I'm figuring this is his last shot. If they are casually dating as he's putting off, then I'm thinking I should be making my move before this thing ends up in a horrible marriage that will eventually end in divorce :P So feel free to give some opinions on the matter so far. It might be too much to ask him to cheat on her, but I feel that's his prerogative but I think it'd be a lot of fun for everyone involved and maybe give him a little confidence boost and help him clear his head and not be so latched on that other horrible pussy. I can see you asking, "Is this to maybe break them up?" While we wouldn't mind that outcome, it wouldn't matter either way as in the end we both want him to be happy. After a little pestering me I finally caved into the wife and told her what was stewing in my brain. I wanted to just have it be a fun surprise but I think she was glad I told her and she told me that she'd be into it if I was OK with it. So now to talk to VF. I think it would go with (forgive lack of quotes): So uh...how's that whole GF action going? You guys pretty serious? If no, continue... I mean, do you love her or have you told her that? If no, continue... What if I told you that you could probably fuck someone else? Today even if you wanted to? Gauge response, if positive then continue. Well there's this person I have in mind but it might be a bit weird. Not sure how to approach this... Conversation I hope would ensue. What about my wife? With a giggle maybe so I might have a last chance to back out? I'm expecting a big WTF?? Well I dunno...I mean you never thought of it? Then I'd go into how it might be fun. I would never bring up the fact that the wife was in on the whole scheme as that would make things weird for them if he didn't want to give it a go. I'd think he'd be fucking bananas not too, but who am I to judge. The only negative for me that I've found is that well the first swap wouldn't include me, or at the best it'd be a MFM which does sound fun even though I'm not into dudes, because mainly I bet J would really enjoy it. I figure that life is long, I'll get my chance, or the more morbid: I'm dead I don't care. I can sure as shit tell you that if it was the other way around and J did a FMF for me I'd be smiling for months. I somewhat thought about that maybe J could then go around my back and cheat on me later with VF. I figure if that's what she wanted to do she could have easily done that in the past 3 years no problem. The only negative for him would be he thinks we're fucking crazy and doesn't want to hang. He's pretty laid back that I think even if I did ask he might be weirded out for a few days but we'd be OK in the end. Or he thinks I'm a bastard that wants to break them up or something although I would hope with my line of questioning I could get that before the whole proposition part. I also would make clear that this is just going to be a one time thing. The reason for saying that would be so that there would be no expectations for anything in the future. I'm not so sure that he could the making love vs fucking or casual sex part of the whole equation. I'd make it really clear though up front that it'd be just sex and if he couldn't handle it then never mind, no hard feelings. The other thing would be is that somehow he'd spill the beans and it would end up affecting his relationship with his yucky GF. Like I said before we'd be happy about it, but he might not be. If he breaks up with her we certainly aren't playing with him every night so he might be lonely till he found someone else. Which if he tried would be a day. That's not to say that if everyone had a good time we couldn't give it another go, I just don't want to give him the wrong idea or maybe even provide a band aid for his other relationship. Mostly as if that one gets more serious then I really want nothing to do with that. I can definitely over-think this though so I'll defer to the good people of the community. Is this just a bat shit crazy idea or should I give it a go?

So I was talking briefly with a friend the other day about this situation and he had asked how things where going. It made me think about this post and I thought when I got time I would come back and update it for what has gone on for the past 5 months or so. It has been a very bumpy road over the past 5 months, no doubt about it. It took probably close to a month for MrsVan to wrap her head around things and during that first month she also actually admitted that she too had romantic feelings for our friend. She finally talked to our friend about these feelings and our GF actually was feeling the same way. After this moment, while we where all really beginning our "poly" journey, MrsVan still really disliked this word and we pretty much agreed that the relationships where what they where but we pretty much stayed away from the word. Splitting hairs, yup but eventually everyone came around and just admitted that this really was what we where all living and are now comfortable with the description of this. Things have progressed very well within our group, but like all relationships we have had a lot of struggles just figuring things out. Over the months we have had a lot of discussion among the group and we all are in this for the long haul. We may have disagreements and some of them have been very major "growing pains" but nobody is willing to throw away the relationships over the issues we have had. So far the good FAR out weighs the bad. I guess we would be in what is considered a poly-fi relationship? We are no longer in the swinging lifestyle as our GF and her husband have never been in the lifestyle and they have no desire to enter it. Our GF has indicated that the thought of us re-entering the lifestyle causes her pain and for the time being MrsVan and I have agreed that we need to concentrate on this relationship and ours solely. We have told our GF that IF we ever decided to re-enter the lifestyle we would discuss this with them first. While they would not be given a veto power to keep us out of it, we would seriously consider and listen to their feelings because we love them dearly and well, that is what we would do with each other, so we feel it is the "right" thing to do with them. MrsVan and I had been going to see a therapist who has experience with poly relationships. It was going great and we where really making great progress, however he had to move suddenly out of state after our last session last week so now we are searching yet again for a therapist in our area. So things in our new group are going wonderful and I am very glad to report that things are doing wonderful for all of us. When things are good, they are great, but unfortunately when things aren't so good, well they can be really bad too. -Van

Okay, so… new member here. If I posted this in the wrong forum please move it and smack my hand My wife and I had an experience this past weekend that’s got our heads rolling. I want to give the whole story to you all, so if you don’t like to read- you may want to move on to another post. After I tell the story (and I’ll try to provide details to keep you interested) I’ll ask some questions that hopefully a few of the more experienced members of the forum can answer. Here it goes. My wife and I have been together for around 20 years- married for 17. We’re now both in our “early-late 30’s” as I like to say. When we first got together we dated, on more than off, for about two years. Prior to my joining the military and still not married, we had discussed, during sex, the possibilities of having a threesome with another male (I’m straight BTW). I won’t bore you with how cool that thought was to me even early in our relationship- but you should know that she was pretty much down with the idea as well. We didn’t act on the fantasies simply because we were still trying to figure out who WE were. The sex we had then was AWESOME, and probably the thing that kept us connected the most. Now… fast forward to a short separation, quick marriage, and then her joining me in Europe. The sex was still awesome and we still talked about sharing her almost all the time. While we were in Europe we didn’t really explore anything outside of our minds, but she did mention that one of my good friends would be the ideal playmate for her. I agreed because he was a little off kilter, colorful, and open minded. We kept getting closer to asking him to join us, but the time never felt right. Eventually we moved to Washington State and lost contact with my friend for about a year. Before I keep saying this, please know that the topic of having MFM sex is almost a constant theme with us when we’re having sex. I know she wanted to do it, and I knew I wanted to do it. So, when said friend stopped in WA for a quick two-day visit, I approached him with the topic of sleeping with my wife and that I would join in and take turns according to her directions. He agreed, and we both went into the bedroom. She got on top of me first and performed oral on him for about 10-15 minutes. Then she told him that she wanted him inside her. He put a condom on and got about halfway in there… and then went limp. Too much pressure I thought, so we went back to me being inside her with her performing oral on him- in many different positions. He said he wanted to try, but by the time he got the condom out of the package he was limp again. I think this ended his ego trip- and as politely as possible he simply said that that what we were doing was a little too “freaky” for him- so he left. We never tried it again with him, but we sure as hell fucked like rabbits about that experience for years. Fast forward to about 3 years later. Same fantasies- same great sex. While In NY I met a guy who became one of my best friends and he was a single dad that just about every woman in our unit wanted to hook up with- and with most of them he did. He has a very high libido, like myself, and just like every woman on post, he crept into our fantasies in the bedroom. The only reason we never invited him to join us was because he was having a lot of sexual partners- and both of us felt that might not be a safe play for us. However, we did get worked up one night enough to call him and ask him over- but he wasn’t home. That being said, and knowing that he’s now my best friend, I know he would have obliged us. Shortly after that unanswered phone call he got together with a mutual friend of my wife- and we both agreed that asking him in at that point would have shown poor manners. Over the next two years our friendship got stronger (he even made a pass at my wife once- didn’t offend me, it’s his nature and he was wicked drunk) so we laughed about it. Anyway, he got pretty serious with his new girl, and even asked me once if it was okay if she blew me while he was inside her. I declined not out of want, but because I didn’t want to betray my wife- playing alone was not part of our fantasy at the time. So I went home and had great sex with my wife and I told her what he asked- I was right, she wasn’t down with it. We all stayed friends for about another year until he had to transfer. Fast forward to about 2 years. My friend and I just happened to end up in San Antonio together for school -and unaccompanied. During one drunken night I told him about my wife’s fantasy. He said, point blank- “That would have been no problem.” We laughed it out and went back home after the school was over. Fast forward another year- My friend (we’ll call him “N” from now on) and his new wife (“L,” a woman I never met before their wedding) ended up moving to Missouri where we are. The two women hit it off pretty strong from Jump Street. Mind you, there were no “situations” worth mentioning here- just know that for the next two years we became close friends. Another fast forward- only know that both couples hadn’t seen each other for about two years, but we all talked on the phone once or twice a week. They were coming back to Missouri after both N and I spent 15 months together in Iraq. My wife and I were happy because they were good friends of ours. Here’s where it gets good. They actually built a house right up the street from us. N told me it was because he wanted to be around his best friend, and that L liked my wife so much that it only made sense. From that point on we’ve been hanging out once or twice a week, fishing, cooking out, or listening to music- you know, a typical suburbia military lifestyle. --- Break- I must remind you that my wife and I during this time were still having crazy sex, still fantasizing about threesomes, and even considered going on-line to look for another couple or man to join us. We never did because the community is very small, isolated- and you really never know who’s being honest out there. I’m a Doc, she’s a teacher- the last thing we wanted was to be found out. So we kept it in the bedroom and continued to have great sex. ---- Back to the story. Sometime last July, my wife, me, N, and L decided to go to NC and rent a beach house together for a week. We always knew that N and L had a good sex life, but BOY- that girl could blow the roof off the house when she came. Anyway, one night we got the idea to go to the beach naked. Naked turned into touching and touching turned into fucking- only it was with our original partners. After the beach, we all went to our separate rooms and had AMAZING sex- again, with our original partners. While my wife and I are getting it on- she says to me “Why don’t you invite them in? I knew L was on her period, so I quickly shot that idea down—but the seed had been planted. From that point on, N and L became a part our fantasy. Forward to two weeks ago- I often go to N’s house on Thursday nights to drink a few beers while L is at dance class. Usually, when she gets home I split- it’s a “guys” night after all, right? Only this time L has been out drinking a few with another friend of hers. She asks me not to run away- that her presence won’t disrupt our “bromance.” So I stay… and somehow the conversation turns to my wife and I having that threesome some 13 years earlier. L goes on to remind me of the night we saw each other on the beach, said it was “hot.” And because we had just been talking about the MFM experience with my wife- I told her that my wife actually wanted them to join us- but that I shot it down because she was on her period. L’s eyes got real big and she literally whisper-yelled, “That would have been so fucking hot! We have to do it!” Now, I don’t take a person’s words at face value- especially after they’ve been drinking. But I was taken aback by her comment. I went on to say, “You mean you’d be okay with N’s penis in my wife’s box and my penis, big as it is, in your box?” She just shrugged her shoulders and N laughed. “Hmmm“I thought. I must share this revelation with the Mrs. So I went home and did. When I asked my wife if she would want that to happen, she simply said “maybe.” Last weekend, N and L came to our house for a BBQ. We cooked, ate, drank (except for my wife who is allergic to alcohol of all things) and then played a game. We had another couple with us, but then they decided to take off at around 1230- we were all alone. L came up to me and said, “Do you remember what we were talking about at our house the other night?” I said yes. “Well… it’s going to happen tonight” she says. Okay, so at that instant my mind freezes- you know that feeling you get when you know something extraordinary is about to happen? So I go look for my wife to tell her what L had just told me. My wife is in our bedroom taking off her heels when I explain it to her. She comes out of the bedroom and sees L waiting for her in the kitchen. N is outside on the deck where I’m promptly banished. N and I share a quick smoke and say almost next to nothing- until I see my wife walk back into the bedroom. When I get there, she’s changed into her robe and starts brushing her teeth. At the same time, L jumps in our bed and proceeds to get naked. I shut the door and look at my wife and say “What do you think?” She says, “I don’t know.” I then go on to explain, not beg that this was part of our fantasy- don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. She agrees and we open the door and see N and L on the bed- L is performing oral on N. My wife lies down next to N and I get on top of her- it took less than one second to get inside my wife. Soon the room is full of low purrs and some loud, but short, screeches. “We’re having a foursome” I say in my mind. Then, L, who is in the middle receiving entry from N starts sucking on my wife’s nipples. I start feeling L’s body (wicked tight) and slip my thumb into her womanhood. After about a minute of that, L just mounts my wife and starts licking, sucking, and kissing anything she can. She dismounts and goes back to her side facing my wife and I. I enter my wife again, but now L is lifting herself on top of my wife by hooking her own ankles around my head. She positions right on top and right in front of my wife’s vagina. My wife tells me “Go ahead and eat her” and actually starts pushing my face down there. I ask N if this is okay and he said it was- so I went to town on L for about 5 minutes until she was about to cum. L pulls my head up, grabs my cock and starts pulling me closer to her vagina. Now, I’m not sure about this because this wasn’t something my wife and I talked about- so I kind of back away and reenter my wife. L turns to N and immediately mounts him. My wife mounts me… and that’s where it pretty much ended. We all laid there naked for about an hour without saying a word. My wife finally explains that everyone should probably get going before the sun got up and our kids started asking questions. They agreed, got dressed, and N and I shook hands… that was that. After they left, my wife and I had sex two more times- simply because our experience was THAT hot. DUM DUM DUMDUM- the next day. So, when I woke up a few hours later with what I felt was a perma-boner, I immediately got a cold shower. My wife and I had to go to the store- not only to pick some things up, but to debrief. Along the way we both agreed that we had a little “buyer’s remorse,” but that it wasn’t bad enough to be concerned about- much like any person would feel after a night of uncommon sex. We assured each other that we were okay with it, went shopping, and got ready for her party. Now, this is how I knew my wife loved it (her first lesbian experience, mind you): she put on this super sexy dress with 4” pumps- classy, but the dress was her way of saying “I’m feeling pretty confident about this whole thing.” After the party we had teenager sex for the rest of the night. Forward to yesterday- even though L was at the party, the two women didn’t get a chance to debrief. So L was at my house when I pulled in the driveway and the women were on the back porch talking. I caught the tail-end o the conversation where L was explaining that she was sorry and embarrassed for jumping into our bed. She seemed a little foggy about the experience but remembered mounting my wife. Both of us assured her that her we were down with what happened and that we didn’t have any regrets. L seemed to be more concerned with how she acted leading up to the play than she was about the play itself. Anyway, she said there’s no “awkwardness” and that her and N discussed some of the specifics the other day. However, she did say that we were all “maybe too close” to have done something like that. With that she smiled and walked out to her car. My wife and I went back to our room to have sex again . Okay, so now that the LONG story is over- we officially broke our swinger cherries. As far as I know, everyone had a great time- especially my wife. But I got to thinking- and that thinking led me to this site, so here are my questions: 1. For those of you who are experienced with this- how common is it to hook up with one’s best friends? 2. Based on the story- did we do anything wrong by just “letting it happen” the way it did? 3. For those of you who have swung with close friends- what are your experiences, and was it/is it a good idea to continue? 4. How concerned should we be with L’s comment: “Maybe we’re all too close”? Was she having the normal remorse or was she trying to make sure that it would never happen again? I must remind you, this was not L’s first, second or third experience with this kind of thing, but it was her first time with N. She’s usually been the Unicorn in the past with other men. L is also very open about sex, and it was her, after all, that instigated the encounter- pretty hard, I might add. Last thing- L is pretty demure when she’s not drinking, but once she’s had a few she wants to rock and roll. Could her comment have been merely an attempt to keep her modesty intact? I’m pretty certain N is fine with it. 5. Both my wife and are open to doing it again. In fact, my wife said that she wished a lot more would have happened, but was afraid to ask. I agree- what’s the best way to approach L and N- one on one, together, or not at all? 6. Last question- N and L are going through some rough patches- mostly it’s about a lack of sex on his part from her perspective, but because I know N so well, he’d tell you that it’s because he she’s still in the “everything must be perfect” stage. They’ve been married for about 6 years- but they’ve talked about splitting up in the past. Should we not entertain the idea of doing this again until we’re sure they’re strong enough as a couple to do it? I only ask because I know the beer will be out this Friday- and with beer comes the lower inhibitions- and that means L will want to rock and roll again. Any advice or thoughts are most welcome. Again, I apologize for the “book” if you’ve made it this far. My wife and I are pretty certain that is something we like and can deal with- even make us stronger as a couple, but we certainly don’t want to ruin our friendship with N and L- or cause problems that might ruin their relationship. Regards, DocWill

Okay, the topic is a little vague, so I'll give a little info here. The wife and I are very interested in the lifestyle. We married young, and have no sexual experience apart from each other. We were both raised in very religious homes, but have made a final break from all of the baggage that is included in that. Jealousy has never really been an issue with us, and we both have close friends of the opposite sex, and have talked openly about our attraction to others. That is what actually led to us wanting to give this a try . . . We have some slightly different views on how to approach it, however. Our very long discussion on the topic eventually led us to discussing which people we know that we would actually feel comfortable sleeping with. One of the women we know was a definite on our lists (mine, and hers for me), although very few men popped up. I'm definitely straight, but she is mildly curious. We also discussed the concept of 'opening' our relationship, and giving each other the permission to pursue opportunities, should they arise. Right now, she would definitely be more comfortable with feeling out some of our friends, especially since one couple has been reasonably flirtatious and a bit of sexual tension usually develops. I'm a little leery of this, simply due to the potential damage the inquiry could do to our friendship, which is valuable to both of us. We have discussed ways of bringing it up in a such a way as to have plausible deniability if our read is wrong, but I still feel a little odd about it. Not that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity with this particular woman, but . . . I have brought up to idea of maybe finding a club and testing things out to see how it feels in a practical situation. She feels that this is a bit more extreme, and is actually more attracted to the separate encounters anyway. When you add into the fact that I don't really trust CraigsList or other sites, I'm not sure what the middle ground might be. Has anyone had experience with any of these situations? I've read the warnings about trying to bring your vanilla friends into the lifestyle, but since we're still basically vanilla still ourselves I'm curious if there is a way to determine if someone is interested or curious without simply saying "Do you guys swing?" Hopefully my rambling has made some sort of sense.

Hi everyone. Yeah, been doing lots of lurking and not much participating. So here it goes (be kind). So for this new years it seems that my wife and I will be staying home after all instead of driving out to Los Angeles for a New Years Massive. We plan on having a fun night thanks to some *ahem* pills we just purchased from a good friend. FYI, this isn't something new but we drop casually - maybe twice a year tops - and our sexual pleasures and fantasies go a bit, um, crazy-wacky on this stuff so it's looooots of fun. Anyways, I just heard from my best friend in Texas that he has absolutely no plans for NY and wants to fly down to party. We have both known this person for possibly 10 years now and I trust him with my life... and my wife (no pun intended) and we know he's clean. I've brought up the idea of inviting him into a threesome with my wife and she's finally warmed up to the idea after two years of thought and consideration. I've mentioned this to my friend a few times in the past and he says he is most definitely interested but it just has to be the right time. He drops too and he knows what we're like so this won't be a surprise, btw. So it looks like it's finally going to happen and I'm just curious to hear peoples reaction and thoughts. We're both really new to this, this will be our first time in fact. I have questions, I'm just not sure what to ask so any pointers would be greatly appreciated. The only thing that could get in our way is her best friend coming down to visit as well since we're intending to go there and party with her. Now as much as I'd like to nail my wife's best friend in a foursome, that will never happen and neither will the threesome while she's there, so she has to keep her butt at home. So pray for me people.

We are not sure how to handle this without hurting feelings or relationships. Here is the situation: We have had a lady friend (Jenny) who has been divorced for quite a few years. Our friendship goes back to the days she was still married to her ex husband, who left her for a younger chick. We do socialize with Jenny and are often at same parties. It seems that Jenny never had a good sexual relationship with her ex. She now has a bf and the two have been dating for some time. But the relationship has been bumpy, and, on and off. From what Jenny tells us (the wife) in confidence, this guy has not been "nice" to her. They don't fuck very often, and, she is not eager to spread her thighs and open up her pussy for his dick. She often sends the guy home without asking him to go to bed with him and having sexual intercourse. To us the guy (her bf) comes across as a jerk who does not know how to pleasure a woman. No wonder Jenny does not want him to fuck her. At one of the parties Jenny asked hubby if he was "safe"? Hubby answered that he was "not safe", but hoped she was, assuming she wanted to know if he could get her pregnant if he fucked her. Jenny is most likely at menopause, so she cannot get pregnant. She also told hubby that she was lots of fun (in bed we assume). Jenny is certainly a fine, cultivated and caring woman. Hubby would love to play with her, sink his dick in her pussy and fuck her to orgasm. No two questions about that. We are not sure Jenny would be OK with a threesome with us where hubby gets to fuck her. Jenny does have a crush on hubby and shows it whenever we meet. The hooker is that Jenny is unaware of our swinging lifestyle and that we as a couple do thresomes and also full swap of mates with other couples for play and sexual intercourse. Jenny is single, has no desire to remarry, and probably at a stage in life where she will enjoy swinging and enjoy sexual intercourse with a variety of men. As a single female she should have no problem getting into clubs or private house sexparties. If you as a swinger couple were in ths situation how would you handle Jenny and discreetly find out if she is OK with a threesum with us where hubby fucks her, or, would she like to learn about and experience the swinging lifestyle where she could play with and have sex with a variety of partners. We could take Jenny to a couples' club, introduce her to our swinger group of couples, or, alternatively take her to a private house sex party where she will be most welcome. At a house party there is the possibility of Jenny meeeting a single guy she could play with, have intercourse (get fucked) with and perhaps develop a swinging relationshp with no strings attached. Comments and suggestions? We would really love to see this fine lady enjoy life and particularly satisfy fully her sexual fantasies and desires without sense of guilt.

Hi All First post here.We have been to clubs but have never swapped only same room sex, mfm is a huge turn on for us both. Now the question, my wife has a friend she has known for 20 yrs, we are in our forties.They have always had a sexual attraction to each other,we have never hinted to him because he lives close to us and is a really good friend, . WE are leaving the country for good in 6 months time....your advice please? could this be the time to invite him in? Thank you in advance

Ok, so I have finished reading a great post by Uomo....but one question keeps coming up....am I alone in this thought. This is the one part that I keep heating over and over friends first. So I'm gonna quote from his post about it and what I feel under that. Just curious if any feel the same as I do. my reply.... I wonder how many swingers take this view or if maybe I just don't belong here. I share most of the ideas from the original post except for this part. I always hear separate sex from love with swinging...and that's how I feel. Now do not get me wrong just because I want to play with you does not mean we cannot have idle chit chat....but to me a friend is someone who is always there...I love my friends. It is possible that maybe I don't use the term friend as lightly as most...if you are my friend I will go to hell and back for you. I don't have sex with friends because there is only one person who gets the complete friendship/love/sex package and that is my husband. So basically if I have sex with you it is just that, sex...doesn't mean I don't like you...and I will never lead anyone to believe that it is anything other than that. For me honesty is always the best policy even if it is sometimes a little harsh. To me being good friends and having sex is a nono. Maybe my term for "friends with benefits" should be "acquaintance with benefits". So am I really alone in this line of thinking?

Hey everyone, I'm in a little situation and I need some serious advice. I'm friends with this couple. We're kinda like a family. I sometimes call them mom and dad. I'm 23. They are 50 and 52 years old. Okay, it all started one night when we were sitting outside. The husband was upset because he cooked dinner and nobody wanted to eat. I can understand that. Then I called him something "little". Don't remember, but then he said, "I've been called many things, but little isn't one of them." Then is wife looked at me and said, "I know, he's not little at all!" I felt that that was information that they needed to keep to themselves. Then he talked about working on the roof and his wife said that she didn't want him to work on the roof because he might fall and she didn't want to switch to electronic devices. She then turned to me and said, "I prefer the real thing." The husband said, "Oh, she just doesn't want to go out and buy a vibrator." I thought that was very unusual for them. Then another day, they had added some curtains in the bedroom. This involved moving around some pictures. I noticed that one of the newly placed pictures above the bed was really high. I asked the husband why it was too high and he replied "There might be a reason for that picture being so high." He was saying that the picture is high so it doesn't get in the way of them having sex. Soon after that, I told him that I didn't feel comfortable with the sex talk they were doing and that I felt it was a domestic issue. He agreed, but that didn't stop it. He told his wife about the "joke" he told me about the picture being too high. He said the picture is too high for no particular reason, it's just high. With that in mind, I was sitting near their bedroom (in the living room) and it is close enough to hear them speak and they know this. The husband asked the wife, "Do you wanna prove why the picture is so high tonight?" He had knee problems at the time and she replied, "Sure, but how's your knee?" "Oh, you don't need a knee for that." They said that right in front of me. Just the other night, the three of us went in the jeep to go exploring. We took the kind of flash light that you have to shake in order to charge the battery. Well while she was shaking her flash light, the husband said, "What does that remind you of?" Then the wife said, "Oh, you're so funny." in a cute way. Now this is the disturbing part. I got a phone call from the husband yesterday afternoon before I was to go back to school and he told me that the wife mentioned my name that she probably wasn't mad at me but she was mad at him. I haven't done anything and wondered why. First of all, his knee is bothering him again and with his knee hurting, he wasn't in the mood to have sex the previous night. Well she got mad at him and told him that she bet he would get in the mood if it was me (personally) there and not her. Later that day, I went to visit them, like I usually do when going back up school, and acted normal as if I hadn't heard anything. As I entered the house, the wife couldn't make eye contact with me. It was only when I said, I'm about to go that she was able to even look at or address me. I can't help feeling that they got together on this phone call idea to tell me that. Perhaps that is why she couldn't look at me. I don't know what the hell is going on. Please give me some advice!

I have been debating about putting this here for a while and I have finally decided to do so. Please bear with me. My wife has a friend that flirts with me often and I flirt right back. I have always viewed this as harmless since she is not (to my knowledge) in the lifestyle. Her huband is very conservative and somewhat a jerk. If he knew that she and I flirted the way we do he would be pissed. Like I said I have always viewed this as harmless and nevr thinking it ould go anywhere. I would like it to go somewhere. I moved my family away due to my job. My wife and her friend stayed in touch. While I was traveling for business last summer her friend came to visit her. One night, after a few drinks, they decided to send me some pictures. Nothing to explicit, lingerie for my wife and bra and panties with one of my shirts for her friend. Now I'm not so sure of the innocent flirting. I talked to her shortly after I got the pictures and thanked her for them (my wife got a much more ardent thanking when I got home). My wife and I have talked about me being with her friend and of course my wife has no problem with it. I am now moving back and I would like to move past flirting with this friend, but I am not sure how to approach it since seh doesn't know about our lifestyle. I also don't want to make the attempt to move past flirting and jeopardize my wife's friedship with her or the friendship I have with her. So what are your opinions.

Okay, all of y'all are going to want to puke at this and you'll be thanking GOD that it wasn't you. Even you atheists out there. Brace yourself... I not only outed myself (I think), I revealed another scary secret about myself: I talk to myself when I'm alone driving in the car. It's a helluva long commute to and from work, and sometimes I have a lot on my mind. Music works sometimes, but other times, I just need to vocalize my thoughts, set them in order and make them make sense to myself. What comes out sounds a bit like a monologue you'd hear on a podcast/audioblog. I find the fact that I do this quite embarrassing to begin with, but it's harmless enough, right? I can talk about any old thing I please, as loud as I please, get it off my chest and get it out of my system. It's a good stress reliever. Wonderful. So anyhow, I was driving home the other day from work and I had attended a workshop on Queer Positive Spaces, which is like sensitivity training for working within a LGBTQ-pro environment. This sparked my imagination and creativity and I started putting thoughts together. What about swingers? How, if at all, would they fit under this umbrella? So I started on my monologue. It lasted a good while, covering a wide array of issues in what I felt was a coherent and organized manner and wrapped it up nicely when I pulled into the driveway. I'm getting things gathered up to head into the house and happen to glance down at my cell phone which was plugged into my handsfree headset (earphones weren't in, but the mic was clipped to my lapel). The screen was lit. It had accidentally dialed my VERY VANILLA best friend since childhood and had been online for 2 minutes and 47 seconds. I hung it up and literally threw the blasted contraption away from me like it was on fire. My hands started to shake and my stomach clenched. Oh. My. God. WTF have I done? So for 2:47, my poor friend got an earful of some very um...enlightening...conversation. I found a pair of balls and called her back immediately, knowing that delaying it would only make it seem worse. I lied my ass off, telling her that what she heard was a podcast recording that I was listening to on the speaker (recorded from the workshop I attended earlier that day, conveniently), and I must have accidentally dialed her number and that's what she heard. Okay people...give it to me straight. How believable does that sound? I WAS at a workshop that fit nicely into my explanation. It's a quasi-reasonable explanation as long as she doesn't look up the particulars of my phone and find out that it doesn't have this kind of capability. And of course, being an extreme vanilla, she WANTS to believe me. Here's the catch: she had 2 minutes and 47 seconds to recognize my voice. Do you think the desire to believe me might be enough to overcome what her ears told her? The voice might've sounded like me, but the "me" she knows would NEVER say the things I was saying. Sympathy cards welcome.