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Are there any christian swingers out there, and what feelings do you have about swinging? Sorry it's not more in detail... just short and sweet. Any advice would be great... thanks.
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Stories would be appreciated. -
While this is news, it is not particularly positive news. Re: Jerry Falwell, Jr and his family, for example here: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-falwell-relationship/ Here are the first two paragraphs of the report: WASHINGTON – In a claim likely to intensify the controversy surrounding one of the most influential figures in the American Christian conservative movement, a business partner of Jerry Falwell Jr has come forward to say he had a years-long sexual relationship involving Falwell’s wife and the evangelical leader. Giancarlo Granda says he was 20 when he met Jerry and Becki Falwell while working as a pool attendant at the Fontainebleau Miami Beach hotel in March 2012. Starting that month and continuing into 2018, Granda told Reuters that the relationship involved him having sex with Becki Falwell while Jerry Falwell looked on. Ignoring the political aspects of the timing of all of this, there are some takeaways. 1. Political leanings are irrelevant to biological drives, sexual fantasies, and the behaviors that follow. 2. The problems arise from the evident hypocrisies: preaching 'family values' (however defined) while practicing something beyond a standard of marital monogamous heterosexuality. 3. Institutions and groups that perpetuate such hypocrisies typically respond the same way, namely by denouncement and expulsion of the person(s) who have been "found out" and restatement of the institutional/group value. 4. There is a business dispute including accusations of extortion folded into all of this. It is absurd to imagine that leaders are somehow immune from fantasies and the intentions to act on those fantasies. What would be more helpful are commonsense boundaries between public and private lives as well as reasonable display of integrity. Even then, humans find ways to accommodate 'sinful behaviors' while embracing integrity: Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds? Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money] Croupier: Your winnings, sir. Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much. [aloud] Captain Renault: Everybody out at once! Neither the evangelical community nor Mr. Falwell's employers should be "shocked, shocked" to find that (even) their annppointed spokesperson enjoyed variety in sexual expression, apparently with the knowledge and consent and participation of his wife of 34 years. Adopting the usual denouncement-and-expulsion-upon-being-found-out strategy ("Do as we say, not what he did!--He was weak and you must be strong!") merely reinforces the idealized pretense of purity. The reality is that tensions between sexual suppression and sexual expression are as old as civilization. While individuals and institutions can impose rules on themselves and set expectations for others, a bit of realism would be welcome: the aforementioned tensions cannot be "wished away". At the same time, business dealings with playmates might be predicted to end badly, as appears to have happened in this case. The Reuters article concludes: In a statement released Friday, before news of the relationship with Granda became public, Liberty University said its “decision whether or not to retain Falwell as president has not yet been made.” Its board of trustees, the statement read, “requested prayer and patience as they seek the Lord’s will and also seek additional information for assessment.”
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The Bible is full of virtuous women; however, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, loved a whore above all other women. [KJV---John 12: 1-8; Luke 7:37-50; Mark 14:3-9; Matthew 26: 6-13] Jesus Christ was also the direct descendant of a whore. Rahab, a Pagan Whore [KJV Joshua 2:1] ---was the grandmother of King David---and the matriarch of the family birth line from which Jesus Christ came. [KJV Matthew 1: 1-19] When God needed His two military spies protected from the enemy---He specifically told them to go the prostitute Rahab’s house, for refuge. Whores are trusted, revered, protected and loved by men in The Bible. These Facts, in and of themselves, are vastly Significant to every Romantic Relationship on the planet---regardless if one is religious or atheist. Because it shows women, point-blank, how all men think and feel. Whether one believes that The Bible is ‘God’s Word’ or just another book---everyone knows the story: Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary---and He loved Mary Magdalene, a whore. All men love whores. Including the #1-man Jesus Christ, and His Father, God.
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At first, I'd like to apologize for a little bit of a long post. I am a 30 year old male and my wife is 25 year old. We have been married for almost 7 years. She is Muslim and was quite conservative from the beginning. On the other hand, I always had different types of sexual fantasies that I have shared with her. Over the past few years, she has tried to become a little bit more adventurous in terms of talking dirty or some other things. While having sex, we talk about her friends who I'd like to have sex with & my friends who she would like to have sex with. She enjoys sharing those fantasies these days. So, safe to say that over the past few years, we both have adapted to each other quite a bit. We both are from a conservative country and being a Muslim didn't actually help our cause. Recently, like a year or so ago, we have moved to Europe. Since being here, she has become just a little bit more adventurous person I would say. She has always wanted to wear different things that she could not wear back in our country. Since being here, I'm proud of her that she has already pulled off mini skirts albeit with stockings. She's also going to parties with friends and I always encourage her to go to those events. Recently, she had been to a party with one of her friends and she was looking really gorgeous in her black mini skirt with a short top. In that party, she had some experiences that she has shared with me and also showed me some pictures from the party. Over there she met some guys from her study programme & she showed me the pictures she took over there with some of guys. The pictures with those guys were pretty normal by any usual standard, but for her the experience was a new one. Like in some of them, she was hugging some other guys that she met over there and in another one, a guy photobombed her picture by grabbing her from behind. She didn't mind those things at all I suppose. After the party she has shared some of the other experiences that she encountered over there too. The suggestions or advices that I'm looking for are regarding those experiences. When someone she newly met touched or kissed her cheek, although she told me that she enjoyed those, yet became a little bit uncomfortable. The particular situation that she mentioned to me were that while dancing with a guy, she felt his hands near her ass and boobs. She said that she didn't follow through with those and immediately stopped dancing with that guy. She has shared those in details with me and as always I get a little bit of sexual arousal from these experiences. Although she hasn't asked me what to do, I think for her the biggest surprise was that like the stories we used to share, she actually enjoyed quite a bit of the party experiences. As always, I'm really cool with that and I would like her to explore her sexuality even more. But, I think, she's been in a little bit of a pickle as she would like to continue, yet she is a little bit shy still. Next week she has some sort of a new year party that She really wants to go and she seemed pretty excited about the dress she's gonna wear over there. To be honest, it's pretty revealing by her standards. The thing is that she's still thinking back and forth about what to do over there because of their earlier experience. It's not like that she disliked her experience over there, rather like stepping into an Uncharted territory. So, what should be my advice to her?- 16 replies
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Hi Everybody, One of the big issues Laurie and I had to overcome before becoming active in swinging was our religious faith and it's teachings about sex. We spent a good bit of time researching to find that most of the stuff we'd been taught about sex was done for political reasons long ago or in a different culture that doesn't really apply today. This got me thinking. What is the spiritual identity of the swinging community? Thanks for taking I moment to answer. It will help some research I'm doing. Thanks, Jeff -
I was reading through some threads and found several dealing with people having guilt issues about swinging/bisexuality due to religious brainwashing in the past and so forth. I couldn't find any kind of poll in this vein - so here goes. I'm quite curious to find what a sampling of those in this alternative and subversive lifestyle consider themselves.
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My ex-wife and I were in the lifestyle for several years, and then unfortunately found out she had been cheating (several times in college, and two separate affairs during our marriage) during our entire 10-year relationship, even while we were swingers (but never with other swingers). Took me a long time to reflect on what happened, how I may have contributed, questioned swinging, etc. It took me some time and many of my friends to help me realize she had a LOT of issues, and still does. I was concerned there could be the possibility my ex-wife would try to accuse me of something false related to our swinging (I made her do it, etc.) that would eventually reveal my past to my new wife. Honestly, I approached the lifestyle with my ex-wife as a gift to her - it was all for her, not myself; I learned a lot about myself, and thought we had completely open, honest, and loving communication, never pushing each other to do something and always respecting our decisions made together as a couple, and truly thought it was improving our marriage. I give you that backstory to tell you my current story… I’m remarried to an incredible woman, and could go on for days how amazing and stunning she truly is…we’re both devout Christians and attend church regularly. A few months before I proposed (she knew it was coming, ring picked out, etc.), I made it a point to be completely honest with her and tell her about my past in the lifestyle with my ex-wife, no details, just the blunt fact. I’m honest to a fault and deeply believe I owed my now wife the entire truth, especially in case my ex- decided to falsely accuse me of something related to our lifestyle involvement. She didn’t take it very well, she was very disgusted and felt taken advantage of, etc., and I actually thought at one point she wouldn’t accept my proposal. It took a little while, but we finally worked through it, but not after some very specific questions she had about it all…which I tried very hard to still vaguely side-step (going into steamy sex details about an ex- with your current girlfriend isn’t exactly wise course of action). My current wife is more reserved and conservative in her beliefs, but popular and stylish, and not at all a prude. She immediately denounced swinging and asked if I wanted her to do the same, pictured me doing all these gross orgies with ugly people, etc…typical mainstream misconceptions and misunderstandings of what the lifestyle really is…and I explained it to her. She’s not the most confident woman in bed, part of her reserved side, but I’ve been trying to get her out of her sexual shyness shell so to speak for a while. But for the past couple years, year of engagement and year of marriage, our sex frequency has gone down considerably, almost seems like she’s disinterested. I have to initiate sex all the time, she never does oral (giving or receiving) or any other foreplay, and she makes it seem like a task to get done and over with most of the time. [side note, she’s performed oral on me once, while she was on her period because she felt obligated, which I stopped her and told her she didn’t have to just because of that and felt she HAD to please me, I’m a gentleman, and not selfish. She took it as I didn’t like how she was doing it, so she claims to this day…] It worries me, and I’ve brought up my frustrations a couple times and she actually listened, but nothing really has changed, she hasn’t opened up and communicated or appear to feel more comfortable during sex. There have been extremely brief glimpses of hope at times though (before I discussed my frustration)… like when I was trying to skirt details of explaining the lifestyle, I did ask her about her sexual history and if she had ever had a one night stand before, which she did admit to me she’s had one (so at least one, maybe more, which was a encouraging in my opinion) and I was merely relating the similarity to swinging that sex can be for fun and just for sex and to help her see that her desires are not so far off from a swinging couples, it’s along the same lines and even better if you consider the open communication. Another occasion, she initiated and for once acted like a sex goddess one night we stayed at a friend's house after drinks, wouldn’t let me get up without fucking her, she was vocal, passionate, wild, it was incredible…but she did have some drinks in her. Another - she tried to get me to have sex in a public bathroom when we were out with a bunch of friends once (work friends mind you), which I wasn’t really into and said no…which she got upset and accused me of swinging but I wouldn’t do that with her…caught me off guard a little and made me wonder her real intent for wanting to in the first place, testing me or truly acting on exhibitionism impulse. With these examples, I’d like to think there’s a sexually free woman in there somewhere, at least I hope, she just doesn’t communicate about this kind of stuff very well, and I really hope her knowledge of my past doesn’t make her feel more inadequate or insecure in bed. If anything, I had hoped it would open her up to feel more comfortable in expressing her desires and sexual prowess with me, but it has definitely not. I am not trying to get her to be a swinger, and won’t ever bring that up, ever, but I do want to have that same open communication and comfort sexually with just her that I learned from the lifestyle, complete and respectful open honest dialogue about what we both want, like, dislike, etc. I do want her to feel desire and comfort initiating sex on her own more confidently. I just don’t know where to start or how to approach…which is why I’m here, asking some old lifestyle friends for any sage advice or ideas that maybe I’m not thinking of or haven’t tried yet. -
It is my observation that fundamental religion mantra is the direct result of "Cherry Picking" verses from the Bible. A web site ( A Bible study on Sin (Part-6A) ) explains how 667 sins are all validated through Bible verses. The summation is that try as one might, reaching Heaven by living a "Biblical Life" is next to impossible. If a couple can make a non-monogamous lifestyle work, it is probably no worse a "Sin" than any of the others on the list. Those who proclaim sex outside of marriage will send them straight to hell obviously have never explored all of the other things they are or are not doing in their life. For the record, I am part of the fundamental religion family but obviously have evolved a more enlighten individual.
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Are 'swingers' adulterers? Ethics and Religion Talk | MLive.com -
We didn't ever really get to do anything but go to one house party, which was fun, and also my Wife's first time with a woman. Read on for my (our) story... It began when my Wife dared me to find a place to post naked pictures of her online. I found a couple of sites where you could put adult content and profiles up, and she started down the road as a sort-of internet porn star. Shortly thereafter, she revealed to me that she was bisexual, and had been interested in girls since she was a teenager. I was shocked, but not disappointed The next subject we found ourselves discussing was swinging. It was something we talked about for several months before we finally were invited to a party. We both enjoyed the experience, and were looking forward to doing it again. Then, probably due to some changes in her (menopause?), she became depressed. It was during this time that she started to spend enormous amounts of time late at night on her computer. I found out later that she was having an online relationship with some guy she met. We struggled with this for a while - we had agreed that this wasn't an 'open marriage' emotionally and if we wanted to play together with other people, that was fine, but no emotional involvement. The relationship ended when she discovered that the guy was just using her. After a period of recovery, just when things were starting to get back to normal, she calls me and says that she's deleting all her profiles, etc, and there's something she wants to tell me when I get home. She told me that she decided to get 'closer to god' and that she wasn't going to be doing the internet porn thing anymore, no more swinging, and that porn, swinging, etc. are sins, etc. And that she's not bisexual anymore. We had been together for 10 years. I was sheltered very much when I was growing up, and it took a lot for me to become comfortable with myself and open up to her (she was wild, and me being a 'prude' for most of our marriage didn't help). We opened up to each other, and became closer, and had a lot of fun, up until her depression and online relationship. There are so many things that changed, overnight. I now have to learn how to cope with someone who despises the fact that I still like to watch porn (and always have, so it's not some new thing), aside from the fact that she has become a very different person. Sorry for the long post. I'm not sure this is posted in the right section. But I would appreciate any comments or thoughts - this is so confusing and somewhat scary.
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Ok, so maybe that's a wrong title, but I don't know how else to put it. :surrender Here's the deal. At work, a guy that sits near me is a Jehovah's Witness. In and of itself totally not a bad thing, I'm a firm believer in "to each their own". The conversation started with " Have you ever heard of the Roman Saturnalia?" I looked it up, realized it was the Roman feast for the god Saturn back in the day that happens to correspond with Christmas. I was basically like "whoopdedoo, I know already that the Christian holidays are based (timewise) on the pagan holidays, that all came about with Constantine. Besides I'm not your 'typical Christian' and hold some very different beliefs from the norm." We delved further into that conversation. I told him that I believed that Jesus' message was love and that to me cheating and adultery were the same thing, involving lies and deceit. That responsible non-monogamy with full knowledge and consent of BOTH spouses was not a bad thing, and if God wanted everyone to be only monogamous, why did Solomon have over 700 wives and concubines, and why did God say to David after the Bathsheba incident (paraphrasing) " If you wanted any other woman, all you had to do was ask." Not "you're married!! That's WRONG!! " etc etc. Well, he brought up Matthew 5:27, 28. That Jesus spoke against adultery and lust etc. I hadn't done much research and I know that a lot of you have. I am currently trying to do so, but he wants to talk tomorrow lol. I know that several people here have delved far into these things (further than myself anyway) and that Spoo (if I remember correctly) actually has degrees in Christian Theology. Or things along those lines.. so anyone that has delved into this (particularly these verses, but in general) please help me out! I don't want to "prove him wrong" per se, just be clear on my stance and that I believe that Jesus would be cool with this and have some back up. (If that makes sense ) Oh and I know about libchrist.com, and I'm looking into stuff there, but that's only one site... Soooooooo any help out there for me? -
I could share a lot about myself in the Introductions section (which I'll likely do soon), but I've signed up here mainly to get a different perspective on how I should deal with my sexual feelings. I've done some reading about swinging, polyamory, and alternative lifestyles in the past week, and found TSB site tonight. I'M MARRIED, BUT WE'VE BEEN SEPARATED FOR TWO WEEKS BECAUSE I HAD PHONE SEX IN A RELATIONSHIP MY WIFE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT. WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT? My wife and I have been seeing a Christian counselor since March, but he believes in monogamy. He is also highly involved with Sexaholics Anonymous (based on Alcoholics Anonymous), so he recommended I join it right away. While we were both virgins before getting married, I have never been very happy with our sex life. She wants to have sex every day, often even more. For some reason, I'm just not interested most of the time. Ever since I hit puberty, though, I've masturbated to pornography. I feel like I've been numbed to real sexuality. The Sex. Anon. group has been helpful in finding a group of supportive people that understand how I feel, but I'm not sure if their solution of monogamous sex only in all situations is healthy for me. My wife and I entered our marriage with a "strong", traditional, Christian foundation. However, due to several factors, I've been agnostic for the past couple of months. My wife is still a Christian, so it's difficult to try to honestly share why I had phone sex - she'd rather not talk to me at all than deal with that pain. There's a lot more to the story, but my three main questions are, "What kind of counseling should we seek?", "Does anyone have any opinions about Sexaholics Anonymous?", and "Is there a 1-800 number (or regular number) I can call that can direct my questions about open relationships?" --- Someone at Liberated Christians responded with the suggestion that we have sex every day at a set time, or even several times a day. My response: Unfortunately, she's almost fed up with me right now. I'm having to dig myself out of a hole. It'll be a while before I can even see her every day, much less have sex every day. Fortunately, we've arranged a meeting this Wednesday with one of these Christian counselors, so that will be the first time she's let me talk with her since Nov26. She's been in our house since then and I'm living out of a suitcase at a friend's temporarily. Yes, it would definitely be hard for me to have sex every day; sometimes I even lose my erection because I don't feel a strong enough attraction anymore. I guess it's just because I'm (1) lazy so solo is easy for me, and (2) I'm interested in the challenge of connecting with other women. I've taken my wife for granted, and I don't want to bother trying to spice things up; I'm sure that if we get to that point and I actually put some creative effort into our sex life, it can improve. I'm just lazy and indecisive, and depressed for several years without realizing it, too (say my psych and GP). Sad state! Thanks so much for such an excellent, honest, supportive forum...
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OK sports fans... another lengthy post. LOL I have been reading other posts for about 3 hours, and have several questions. One lengthy thread about guilt danced all around my question, but did not help. We have been taught that premarital sex is bad, sex between singles is bad, between ANYONE but your marriage partner is bad. Heck, sex itself is bad. Sex with yourself???? OOOHHHH, really bad. So what am I doing on a swingers site? Trying to find out if if is for us. Since youth, (a long time ago, LOL) we have been taught sex is a bad thing outside marriage, and DO NOT ENJOY it when you do it. So, how do we get over this indoctrination? Jealousy can be a part of this, but not in this question. Please, no sermons on jealousy here. I just want to know how others overcame this indoctrination. IN my case, (husband), I can overcome it better, but my wife has a REAL problem overcoming the "anticipated???"guilt. We have not started anything yet, we are waiting for "the right moment", so your advice is anticipated. I have several other posts on other topics, so please do not confuse them with this question. There are also several other "guilt trip" problems my wife has, and they will be addressed later in other posts. Thank you.
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We were just wondering how many Swingers will admit to believing in GOD? Of course most people will say they do, we just wondered how many, and also if most people will say that they can be a Christian, and still be a swinger.. Personally, we kinda feel like a couple of bad little kids that need a spanking, but in light of the despicable things that have went on for years like all the pedophiles in the Roman Catholic Church, we feel that swapping partners is net really that big of a deal. We welcome all comments.
