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I listen to Dan Savage a lot. I should probably just call him and ask this on the podcast. But I thought I might get feedback from swingers first. Dan Savage talks a lot about how the biggest way people who are gay or bi can support the gay rights movement is to be out. Especially bi people who appear to be in a heterosexual arrangement. This is me. I can totally relate to what he is saying. I have a friend who from the sound of it has a closeted gay teenager. She says to him, "You know I'll love you no matter what, but you do like girls, right?" She has a conservative religious background. I feel like for both their sake I should say something to her (like, "Whether he does or doesn't like girls, saying that isn't going to change anything and is going to make him afraid to disappoint you."). I feel like if I included that I am bisexual it would help. She knows me and knows I'm a good person leading a happy life. Maybe knowing me and who I really am would make things easier for her son? I also have the situation with vanilla acquaintances who say and do things that are homophobic. I'm not really afraid to come out as bi. The problem is that the way I express my bisexuality is through swinging. My husband is not in a position where we can be fully out as swingers. Plus, I feel like swinging is part of our sex life, therefore not everyone needs to know about it. I worry that if I tell people I'm bi, it will turn into a big discussion and I'll end up telling them about swinging. What do you think? Please tell me your experiences.- 14 replies
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Recently DH and I shared our swinging secret with my best friend, a gay man who has suspected for a while, but was glad to have it confirmed by us. One of the reasons we decided to come clean was because my friend has been expressing to us his partner's interest in bringing someone else into the bedroom for a threesome. His partner has also expressed to him different fantasies such as being with a black man. My friend has been with his partner for 2 years, they just bought a house together, and they are planning to spend their lives together. My friend seems very hesitant about the idea of a threesome, but he has been giving it more and more thought since his partner has such an interest. To me this sounds like a normal development into the "lifestyle". However, this got me to thinking about gay couples and what is considered "the swinging lifestyle". I haven't read anything on here about gay couples (bi yes, gay no- unless I missed it) and have certainly not seen any gay couples at clubs in my area or even on SLS. Once I started thinking about it, it shocked me a bit, because we live in what I would consider a city with a very large gay population (New Orleans). It seems to me that the swinger community is (whether intentionally or unintentionally) leaving out the gay community. For instance, speaking of SLS, to my knowledge you can't even create a profile for a same sex couple. There are "gay sites" such as Grindr, but again, to my knowledge that is geared more toward single gay men- not gay couples and especially not lesbian couples. So I guess my question is- is there any prevalence of gay couples in the swinging community? Could there ever be? Do we, as heterosexual couples, consider ourselves separate from gay non-monogamous couples? I'd like to attempt to leave the societal misconception that all gay men/couples are non-monogamous out of this conversation if possible, as I know this to be untrue, and rely more on any real world experience that anyone has on this topic, if any is there to be given. Thank guys!
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Ladies, I need your advice. I have tried asking for help on a forum for bisexual women but have been rebuffed (as in my account terminated and message deleted because I was not a woman). So I joined this forum in hopes that some of you can offer me some insight into the female mind. Here is the situation. My wife and I are in our mid-40's. We have been together for almost 20 years and have two kids. We have talked at great length about getting into swinging, but have never made a serious effort to do it. Several weeks ago we were invited to a party by a friend of a friend. We went with two other couples (our friends, and their friends whom we don't know that well). We didn't know anyone else there, but we are very social so we didn't mind. While we were at the party, we learned from the friends of our friends that our host and hostess (as well as several of their guests) were swingers. Since my wife and I had already discussed the idea of swinging we were not bothered by this (though I distinctly got the feeling that the other couple was telling us this just to gossip). Despite our not being bothered by this the husband of this couple felt it necessary to reassure us that this was not a “swinger party”. However, he did add the caveat that our host and hostess did throw very wild parties. Our friends had to leave early (a phone call from the babysitter that they had a sick child). Soon after that their friends (who had invited us) also left (they got into an argument). Since we had drove ourselves and had met a lot of new people we didn't mind. So we stayed, had a few more drinks, etc. About 11 pm I went upstairs to look for my wife. I had been playing pool in the basement with several other men and had last seen my wife socializing with a group of women upstairs. When I came upstairs I did not notice her in the living room (it was a split-level house). As I walked by the second flight of stairs leading to the bedrooms I noticed that there were two men hanging around the door to the master bedroom looking in. I walked up and glanced over their shoulder. On the bed was my wife, laying on her back, with a woman between her legs going down on her. Another woman was straddling my wife's face. Although I could not see her face I could tell that she was licking this woman's pussy. The woman was running her fingers through my wife's hair and grinding her crotch into my wife's face. I could also see my wife's hands moving up and around, caressing the woman's hips and ass. The thing is, my wife has repeatedly told me she is NOT bisexual! I was dumbfounded to say the least. I will not lie, I was incredibly turned on by what I was seeing, but I could not believe she was doing it. I stood there with the two other guys (in complete silence) and watched. Within a few minutes the hostess came walking up the stairs with another woman and loudly announced “Sorry boys, this is for ladies only!”. The two of them then proceeded past us into the bedroom. As the hostess began shutting the door I could see the other woman who had accompanied her upstairs begin to disrobe. I spent the rest of the night in the living room at the bottom of the stairs with one eye up the hallway. Needless to say I was feeling a wash of strong emotions. To be honest, I wasn't actually that angry about her infidelity (I call it infidelity since we had never decided as a couple to actually pursue swinging yet). I was more upset by the fact that she had always told me she wasn't bisexual and the fact that she was doing this alone (like most men I fantasize about watching my wife with another woman and I was missing out on the chance to see it!). I pretended to need to use the bathroom a lot and would sneak down the hallway from the upstairs bathroom to listen in at the bedroom door. I heard everything from moaning, giggling, small talk (which I could not make out), and all out laughter – it was obvious my wife was having a great time with these ladies. About 1:30 in the morning, when most the guests had left (or found other bedrooms, I honestly don't know). The door to the master bedroom finally opened up. Looking up the stairs I watched as the five women filed out and came downstairs. After reaching the bottom of the stairs they all told my wife how great it was meeting her and each gave her a full kiss on the lips (a couple with tongue), which my wife reciprocated. I honestly don't think my wife even realized I was there as this was happening. After the last kiss, I asked her if she was ready to go and her face turned ashen. She meekly said she was and we left the party. We drove home in silence. I wasn't sure where to start and to be honest I just wanted to get home. The next morning we had a long talk about what happened. My wife explained to me that she did not plan for any of that to happen. When I questioned her about her behavior (and even asked if she had lied to me about her sexuality) she said that she never had bisexual feelings when she was younger but she had been fantasizing about being with other women for several years and over the last couple years had found herself physically attracted to other women. She told me that she felt an immediate connection with the woman I had seen going down on her while they were talking downstairs. And that as the night progressed the woman became very flirtatious with her, until it culminated in a kiss and an invitation upstairs, which my wife accepted. Before going upstairs with her this woman excused herself and spoke with the hostess. My wife said she had no idea it was going to be a group sex thing. She said it started with just her and the woman who had kissed her. Then the woman who I had seen straddling her face came in and asked my wife is she could join in. My wife admitted to being both apprehensive and aroused by this but that she did tell her yes. My wife said that before straddling her this woman asked her if she wanted to lick her pussy, to which my wife again replied yes. It was after this that I saw what was going on. My wife said she had no idea that the two other men and I were watching. I asked my wife if she went down on any of the other women (after the door was shut) and she told me she went down on all of them, more than once, and that they all went down on her multiple times as well. I asked her why she kept saying yes and at first she said she doesn't know but then admitted it was because she wanted to do it. Here is where I need your insight ladies. I have forgiven my wife and we are working past this. However, I am still having a tough-time believing that a woman who was straight 20 years ago could end up in a “lesbian-orgy” in her 40's. My wife is sticking to this story and has told me that it isn't uncommon for a woman's sexuality to change throughout her life (she has a friend who did not come out as a lesbian until she was in her late 30's). Is this accurate? Is it plausible that my wife really was straight 20 years ago but could now be bisexual? If this has happened to any of you, I would very much like to know. If there is any truth to this I will accept my wife's answer and we will move on. If this isn't accurate then it means we have a lot more to work out and I would desperately like to know that as well. Thank you.
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My boyfriend and I have been swinging for about six months. We're both SUPER kinky, and can't get enough sex. We both love anal, strap-on sex (me on him), all kinds of positions in my vag and ass, BJs (I am a BJ FIEND!), new locations, nipple and breast play, watching porn together, spanking, roleplay, bondage -- you name it. We're also very communicative with each other about our sex life. He's fully bi, and loves sharing me with both men and women. When we're at clubs or parties, and also when we've met people to join us at home, we've always had MFM play, or MFT. He's REALLY interested in sharing me with a woman, and I am, too, in theory -- but I've never been with a woman before. The most I've done is kissed another woman and sucked her breasts, but only a couple of times, and nothing (not even touching) below the belt. I love looking at sexy women, both clothed and naked, and I love watching porn. But I've never fantasized about being with a woman, and I don't know what to do to please another woman. I'm not very good at bringing myself to orgasm with manual clitoral or vaginal stimulation -- I usually use toys on myself, or fuck my boyfriend to get off -- so I'm worried that my skill level would disappoint another woman. I am nervous about two things: a) I might not do a good job of pleasing the other woman, and b) I don't know if I will enjoy having sex with women in the first place. I'm hoping that I will enjoy it, because before I met my boyfriend, I didn't think I'd ever like anal, and now I LOVE it -- so I know that just because I haven't fantasized about being with a woman before doesn't mean I won't like it. My biggest qualm about engaging in an FMF threesome is that I am exploring not only a new sex act, but also my very sexuality itself -- I don't know if I'm bi, bi-curious, heteroflexible, or just straight and REALLY kinky. Can any women gives me tips about what kinds of sexy and pleasurable things I can do with a woman, either alone or with a man? Can any women help me assuage my fear of popping my girl-on-girl cherry? Were you nervous your first time with a woman? Should I look for a woman with whom I can play by myself, while my boyfriend just watches, so I can get comfortable with my sexuality before he and I share a woman together? Thank you for your support!!! -
A few recent or reactivated threads about labels got me to thinking about the different ways we see ourselves and how that sometimes differs from labels that others apply. In the context of swinging, I call myself bisexual. It's easily understood by other swingers and SLS even has a handy category named just that. However, out in the world, with kinksters or during discussions of gender politics in the LGBT community, I've identified as pansexual ever since I first heard the word,. It's the one that fits best and is more appropriately nuanced, plus it signals a certain non-binary approach to sexual expression. When we created our SLS profile, Mr. Doe, given a choice of straight, gay, bisexual or bi-curious, shrugged his shoulders and said, "Not straight, not really bi, so whatever." I picked bi-curious for his as it's less definitive in other people's minds but still indicates flexibility. So, what do you call yourself?
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All I need to do is talk about her doing anything with a woman, and I kill the mood. I have been married 7 years and never bring it up. She put it to me this way "How would you like me to start talking about you sucking a cock or something, would you like that?". Looking at it from that point of view and putting myself in her shoes I get it. She says she isn't, and I've never seen her even a little curious. Lesbian porn is a turn-off for her; once again, if she put on gay porn, how would I feel? I'm totally in love with her and don't want to turn her off. Keep in mind I don't want her to do anything she doesn't want. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Is anyone else in a marriage with a 100% straight girl?
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So I have noticed from other polls on this site that the incident of bisexual behavior is far higher than any mainstream polls taken. I have two theories as to why this may be. One is that bisexuals are more inclined to swing. The second is that a swinger who identifies as straight is more likely to explore same sex behavior. I expect there is a combination of both occurring. I plan on doing one poll for men and one for women. This poll is for men only. Due to the taboo of bisexual men that doesn’t exist for women I’m curious to see how different the results will be. Choose one of the first two options only if you have no interest in any future same sex activity. Choose any of the other three if you are open to further same sex activity. After reading other forums I should have used heteroflexible a term some like. I would put heteroflexible and Bicurious as pretty close together so you can choose 3 for that option. -
I ask this in regards to male male play, and was curious - At what point does it cease being play and cross over to Bi?. So I made this in a form of a poll to give anonymity, this is NOT to spark anger or sniping, just to see what the consensus is.
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Watched a movie/bio on a sex researcher from the 1940/50s called Kinsey. It was shown on HBO. He is also controversial and some of his research will not be accepted. But other parts of his research was interesting and that is what I am focusing on. One question that he asked males was if they had any homosexual thoughts/tendencies. He based his scale on 1-6. One being a straight male with six being a homosexual. I haven't read his book, so I hopefully made a scale that would be close to the one he used. Since submitting an answer to this poll is anonymous, I hope there are some interesting results. -
Ok, reading this post from OhioCouple got me thinking about how I discovered that I was bi. I never would have considered myself bi at all or even attracted to women. Then one day a good friend of mine told me that she had been having dreams about us together. We started talking about it from there and a few months later she was my first. So in those few months I would say I was definitely bi-curious. Once I crossed that line and we had our first experience together I was definitely bi. Prior to that I never would have even considered the thought of being with another woman. The idea was not a turn on. However, I could very easily look at other women and say "hey she's hot". I would even hang out with the guys I worked with and we would judge women as they walked by. So for me, in a way a switch did one day just flip when the right woman came along. I am to this day extremely picky about those women I am willing to be with. Much more so than I am with men. For women their looks do have to turn me on. For men I look more for personality and they have to get to me mentally. With a woman I'm not looking for some emotional connection, basically just a woman that turns me on. So now the question for those of you ladies who do consider yourself bisexual. What was the turning point for you where you went from being a straight woman only interested in men, to being a bisexual woman who was turned on by the ideas of being with another woman?
