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My wife and I have been discussion swinging for a couple years but never took the plunge. A combination of nerves and lack of time just prevented us from making the leap. However, I've been plunged into a triad-ish situation, and I'm having a little bit of trouble with it. My wife and I have lived with my best friend for probably 7 of the 9 years we've been married. We've recently stepped up the swinging talk again, and we didn't hide it from him. He's currently out of work and at home all day and my wife is home with our kids, one goes to kindergarten and the other takes long naps. Over the last couple months he became very flirtatious with my wife when I wasn't around. It went to the extent of laying out his penis for her to examine. This is when she let me know. One night, when he was leaving town for the week, she told me about the situation and essentially asked my permission to take it further. I was hit with a mix of emotions. On one hand, it was excitement, on the other hand, fear. I gave my blessing because it sounded like fun. However, over the next couple days, my wheels kept spinning, and I've been battling jealousy and insecurity since. We've had several talks where I went back and forth. I've been trying to find a place where I'm comfortable and she's happy. A comprise I offered was that I have to be around. Neither like that option because for him it was "weird" and for her it seemed controlling. On the last discussion, after he came back to town, I relented and gave her the green light again. It came down to the fact that she was angry that I was going back on my blessing, and the genie was out of the bottle. My mind was going to run wild either way. Therefore, we figured we march ahead and hopefully I'll get used to it. We're hoping it's just nerves. She's promised to keep me informed. Since then, only a handjob has occurred. Saying "stop it" really is the worst option in my opinion. Talking about it gets us both hot, and I'd really hate to betray her in going back on my word. I think it'd be a step back rather than forward. Besides, it'd still leave me with trust issues. I'm fairly certain they'd listen if I asked it to stop, but I really dislike that option. I'm not sure it'd solve my insecurities. The problem with going forward is, what if I don't get better? I'm having trouble concentrating at work due to always thinking about this. I have lingering insecurities. Whenever she's hanging around him I start getting depressed that she seems more excited to be around him than me. It turns to anger when I realize the only reason this has happened is that *I* have to go to work and watch kids while he gets to be around responsibility free. I'm really having a hard time with this and looking for some help/advice. I know there are many no-no's here (swinging with someone you live with/open marriages seem to have a low success rate/taking one for the team), but I'm not sure what to do about them. I broached the idea of a MFM, but he wasn't too keen on that. Besides, I think this is ultimately an insecurity and trust issue on my side. I just don't know what to do about it. As much as we talk, I fear her growing weary of me whining about my insecurities. I'd just be transferring my stress to her. I'm really sort of stuck. I think the primary problem is that the source of jealousy lives with us, so I have no solace. I really did this to myself. help?

Hi all. This is my first post. My husband and I are new to swinging. With his job we are unable to really pursue swinging locally so our options are kind of limited. We do have a second home in another state so we typically try to look there or wait for our trips to Desire. With this, our playing doesn't get to happen like we would like. We have some friends who asked us about Desire and we took them there. Since they are friends we haven't really approached them about the possibility of playing. They have never played with anyone but I do know they are looking to spice up their marriage. They are close friends, but becoming closer. Anyone ever approached this? TIA

I know there are a lot of women who enjoy younger men or just single men while their hubbies watch. So, I'm wondering how many enjoy a scenario like this..... NYE, I was at a (vanilla) party a friend of mine was throwing. Because the girl throwing it is much like myself (having more guy friends than girl), the guy girl ratio was a bit skewed (I'm gonna guess at least 7:1). Now, that said, I had a great time, as I'm sure every other girl at the party did. Sometime after midnight a couple comes walking in, they were obviously older than the general population of the party and I don't know if it's just my experience with the swinging world or what but as soon as I saw them the first thought to go through my mind was "swingers" (maybe there really is such a thing as swingdar). As the night progressed the guy often had his camera out and the female half disappeared on more than one occasion. I talked to the guy a bit and he gave off even more of a "vibe" that just continued to enforce my original thoughts. I left fairly early (around 2, from what I understand the party was still going strong at 7 the next morning and then some), but later followed up with someone else who was there who informed me that there was some couple there where the woman had sex with 4 or 5 of the guys at the party while the husband took pictures. The comments from the guy I was talking to made it clear that I didn't think too highly of it. I think it was pretty safe to assume that it was the same couple from earlier in the night. So, while we know that several of the guys obviously didn't mind and did have some fun with this woman, I wonder how many more were having the same thoughts that this guy had (or would have had they been sober enough to think). As a swinger, would you crash a straight party full of guys in this manner? Would you care what others at the party might think of you? Because of the skewed ratio I had several chances to get laid through the night that I didn't take, but would have had it been a swinger party. However, for me, since it was a vanilla party and most of the people where people I had just met I didn't want to leave behind a bad label of myself. Thoughts?

We are very interested in starting in the lifestyle but we are also very nervious about meeting people! Oir question is this, is there something we can do or say to let a swing couple know that we might seam to be vanilla but if you break the first move we might be interested? I hope that made sense! Lol

This about getting two married couples to swing with us in a small town that has no clubs or other swing facilities. We have a vacation home where we visit several times a year, a week or two at a time. We have one couple that is a regular, that we swing with, doing full swaps intercourse with each other mate. We have had a couple of unattached females for f/m/f various times. Now we want to add the two couples that have a business or family connection with us. Generally we stay from approaching couples with a connection that may cause serious issues, but this one, we think, is a reasonable risk with rewards of social and sexual nature that include a full-swap intercourse. Looking for suggeations how to bring this about. We do want to be discrete to the point of not causing a storm yet the message should be clear and unmistakable about what is intended, i.e., play, full swap and intercourse. One: Regular swing couple Sam and Kelly. Business owners show up at various times. Most times either just or him due to different travel schedules. We do foursome play and full swap for intercourse. Other times when only one is present it is threesome: m/f/m or f/m/f. Two: Sam(antha) and Pat(rick) Married couple. Sam is my (wife's) distant cousin and college friend. So, there is a family connection.They spent many years in Australia as expats. Now have returned. Aus has a very vibrant swing culture with private couple's (sex) parties quite common. Pat was interested but could not get wife to go along. She is too shy to play with another couple, not that she is against a swap. We need to break the ice so four of us can play, and full swap for intercourse. We have enjoyed their company, have chemistry, done some risque chat, but, have yet to ask for play leading to full swap. Pat is definitely open to the idea of swinging and full swap. He is not sure about how to get wife to go along. Three: Shelly and Rob. Shell'y Dad is the property manager where we live. He and his wife are a vanilla couple in their late 60s. So, there is a business connection. Hubby met Shelly first at her Dad's office. Both live in the homes near each othe. Shelly is a very attractive woman and hubby would love to do (fuck) her. Found out from her dad that her hubby Rob works offshore for three months at a time and visits home for couple of weeks. Presumely, the couple can have sex. Now Shelly and I have become good friends, talking about all things that women do including sex. I have told her that we as a couple swing with other couples and swap mates for play and intercourse with the other couple's mate. Shelly is open minded, enjoys sex, but thinks that her hubby, Rob, may have an isue seeing his wife play with another man and have sex. We are looking for suggestions how to get these two couples to play with us. We are open to any ideas, howsoever wild. Just need to be very discrete so as not to rock the boat too much, since both couples have connections with us, family in one case, business ina the other. We need an out if things should go wrong at the proposal stage. How do we approach? Both couples together or wife on wife or two hubby's discussing how to get their wifes to swing? We can entertain in our home for full privacy for play, swap and intercourse. Thanks in advance for your ideas. Any ideas howsoever wild are welcome. We are looking for some creative thinking since we would love to play with these couples. We have good chemistry and we have made a friendship. We want to channel the friendship into play and full swap of mates for intercourse. Some of you may say-do not go there because of the connections. That is OK. Looking for some good advise.

I saw this story on reddit and thought it was important to share. This is exactly why my wife and I don't play with vanilla couples. We actually had something similar happen once... and they ended up divorced. Vanilla couples do not have the same level of communication that swinging couples tend to have. This fact leads to situations like this one. My wife and I had a foursome last night with another couple. I'm having a hard time dealing with it. : sex I don't want to copy and paste the story here... so you will have to read it and then come back to comment here. Thoughts?

Hasn't anybody met a playcouple in line at the supermarket, restaurant, PTSA meeting, bookstore, or rodeo? It's a whole lot more fun and not stressful at all. It doesn't feel like work, either. Alura

Apologies in advance, this is a long one but I would appreciate your opinions! I've had a close work bud that turned into a really close family friend for the past 3 years. I no longer work with him but we remain very close. I think of him as my brother and I know that J also loves him too. (I'll refer to him as VF.) Not in the same way that she loves me, but more or less like a brother as well. We pretty much feel the same way about him, but I'm not interested in him sexually. We have a lot of things in common and have pretty much hung out whenever there has been any free time for a few years now. Almost like a bunch of dates that we went on as a couple with just him is how I've described it in the past. More about us: W = Man J = Woman We've only been into the LS for a few months, but we have been having a lot of fun (and a few bad experiences too). We haven't fully swapped yet, but that day is coming, and we're really not in a huge rush. Its not that we're not ready or anything its just that we haven't found the right mesh. We've basically kissed (she's really into that) and I've gotten some oral action, as well as a few soft swapping situations. We also almost got into a full swap situation but J wasn't into it. I might make an introduction post and I'll link it here in due time if you'd like to know our full story. In this situation it was mainly me going at it with the other girl, with all clothes on, and instead of jealousy or feeling something else 'silly' I was redefining the word 'hot' inside of my head. I looked over though and she wasn't into the dude and so an abrupt halt was called to the proceedings and we went back to soft swapping. An epiphany of sort though occurred that night because it wasn't about ME doing something with the other woman but it was more along the lines of US having a blast with each other. That's why I stopped when I got the "look" and it didn't bother me one wit that I couldn't continue with the other woman. Fast forward to me waking up this morning and what should pop into my head? Fantasies! I remember watching an Skinimax soft core porn when I was a teen and it was all about how the two girls who were best friends decided to have fun with the husband. At first it was just the wife and she put a blindfold on the guy and kept kissing him, then she sort of tagged the friend and she started kissing him and at first he was like all "Wahhh?" but he went with it, and then the wife came back and started kissing his chest and...you get the rest. So I started thinking about how like guys really do have an attraction/curiosity to their mate's friends. I mean, I had to hold so much together to never bang the shit out of my ex GF's sister. And she was always getting me into certain situations that I'm sure she knew were giving me raging boners... YIKES! Ergo, why wouldn't females have the same fantasy? Except in my case we have a bonafide best friend in our midst who we both care for ... holy shit! Ding ding ding we got a winner! Maybe?! So now I have it playing around in my head for 3 hours this morning and J keeps wondering why I have this grin on my face because I'm thinking about how I can go propose this to my bud. I'm thinking all about how we're going to be just sitting on the couch, then I'll just start maybe making out with the wife a bit, then try to grab VF's hand and plant it on her boob, and whisper something like "hall pass" while trying not to laugh. Then I'm thinking about how turned on both of them would be and how excited my wife would be and I wonder if after a bit maybe she'd call me up, or not, and how "hot" the evening would be. Course, this probably wouldn't be the way it would play out at all but it's my head people! Shit always works exactly the way I want it to You see, I know he's clean, great person, has hangups like most people do but he's my best male friend. My wife is my best friend as well. I figure what a fun gift of sorts I could give them, would be a fantasy that they would remember for a long time. I think that the only reason I wouldn't be involved is if he wasn't ok with another male around or if it would make him uncomfortable or unable to get it up or something. I also know that he's into the wife, and I've caught him eying her with the "kissy face" that pretty much sums up his desire. I've already talked with the wife about it and she's expressed her curiosity and it kind of makes total sense to me if you look at the fantasy up above that I got into so much as a teen. I'm going to have to give you more back-story here as it is warranted for him. You see I inadvertently hooked him up with a girl about 8 months back. And she's quite a bore, no same interests, not attractive, not smart, really judgy (meaning: likes to judge others) and mean. We're both baffled why the hell he would be interested in her but we both think it comes down to that he's had 1 serious other girlfriend and this girl now has him ringed in with his cock. He's 30+ years old. I always thought he'd hit it and quit it, but she's still around and it's just all weird. I think it's mainly due to fear that he'll be lonely and this is as good as it is going to get (that's pretty much what he's told me). I think his main problem is that he's so introverted that it is very hard for him to approach girls. I think if he could get past that he'd have no problem as he's very successful and has a great heart. Oh I also helped him lose 50+ pounds too. Rrrreooorww! So there that is, he's got a girlfriend and that's one hang up that might turn him off. No problemo, I respect that even though who in the hell could resist my wife?? The other thing that got me thinking that time is running out is that this psycho biatch seriously started talking aloud this past weekend about "having kids" and "buying a house together". PUUUUKE!!! I talked with him after and said: "Really this is it? You wouldn't fuck anyone else out there?" "No, I would" "Buying houses dude?" "I'm going to buy a house if I want one." Well OK then, that's really inconclusive. I figure if there's ever a time to do this it should be soon. I don't want to screw around with anyone's marriage. I already know she is going to be the super jealous type so I'm figuring this is his last shot. If they are casually dating as he's putting off, then I'm thinking I should be making my move before this thing ends up in a horrible marriage that will eventually end in divorce :P So feel free to give some opinions on the matter so far. It might be too much to ask him to cheat on her, but I feel that's his prerogative but I think it'd be a lot of fun for everyone involved and maybe give him a little confidence boost and help him clear his head and not be so latched on that other horrible pussy. I can see you asking, "Is this to maybe break them up?" While we wouldn't mind that outcome, it wouldn't matter either way as in the end we both want him to be happy. After a little pestering me I finally caved into the wife and told her what was stewing in my brain. I wanted to just have it be a fun surprise but I think she was glad I told her and she told me that she'd be into it if I was OK with it. So now to talk to VF. I think it would go with (forgive lack of quotes): So uh...how's that whole GF action going? You guys pretty serious? If no, continue... I mean, do you love her or have you told her that? If no, continue... What if I told you that you could probably fuck someone else? Today even if you wanted to? Gauge response, if positive then continue. Well there's this person I have in mind but it might be a bit weird. Not sure how to approach this... Conversation I hope would ensue. What about my wife? With a giggle maybe so I might have a last chance to back out? I'm expecting a big WTF?? Well I dunno...I mean you never thought of it? Then I'd go into how it might be fun. I would never bring up the fact that the wife was in on the whole scheme as that would make things weird for them if he didn't want to give it a go. I'd think he'd be fucking bananas not too, but who am I to judge. The only negative for me that I've found is that well the first swap wouldn't include me, or at the best it'd be a MFM which does sound fun even though I'm not into dudes, because mainly I bet J would really enjoy it. I figure that life is long, I'll get my chance, or the more morbid: I'm dead I don't care. I can sure as shit tell you that if it was the other way around and J did a FMF for me I'd be smiling for months. I somewhat thought about that maybe J could then go around my back and cheat on me later with VF. I figure if that's what she wanted to do she could have easily done that in the past 3 years no problem. The only negative for him would be he thinks we're fucking crazy and doesn't want to hang. He's pretty laid back that I think even if I did ask he might be weirded out for a few days but we'd be OK in the end. Or he thinks I'm a bastard that wants to break them up or something although I would hope with my line of questioning I could get that before the whole proposition part. I also would make clear that this is just going to be a one time thing. The reason for saying that would be so that there would be no expectations for anything in the future. I'm not so sure that he could the making love vs fucking or casual sex part of the whole equation. I'd make it really clear though up front that it'd be just sex and if he couldn't handle it then never mind, no hard feelings. The other thing would be is that somehow he'd spill the beans and it would end up affecting his relationship with his yucky GF. Like I said before we'd be happy about it, but he might not be. If he breaks up with her we certainly aren't playing with him every night so he might be lonely till he found someone else. Which if he tried would be a day. That's not to say that if everyone had a good time we couldn't give it another go, I just don't want to give him the wrong idea or maybe even provide a band aid for his other relationship. Mostly as if that one gets more serious then I really want nothing to do with that. I can definitely over-think this though so I'll defer to the good people of the community. Is this just a bat shit crazy idea or should I give it a go?

My wife and I have been swinging for about five years. We have been experimenting new things which is great for both of us. I met a girl a about three years ago. Long and short of it we have all become close friends. Wife and I want to see if she will play. I have purchased her Victoria Secrets items, some very sexy. She loves it although have not seen her in anything yet. I took her on a very nice date for her birthday. It ended with a nice kiss good night. How far do we see if this will go? We don't want to come right out and tell her we swing, yet we want to give her signs that we want to pleasure her. Obviously we would not be pursng if we didn't feel there was a chance. Any ideas. Thanks in advance.

What are some good ways to ask a vanilla couple if they are swingers or would like to try swinging?

I was writing a comment to a woman who was upset by the fact that she'd been approached, along with her husband, a number of times by vanilla hunting swingers. She had a very negative view of swingers, and I was defending the community in general without really addressing the vanilla hunting. Some of the things I talked about included the ideas we all hold so dear: that you must be in a stable relationship and talk about things before you get into swinging. But it was at this point when I realized just how wrong vanilla hunting is; how it goes against everything we as a community say we value about the process of getting into the lifestyle. People on this board tend to bring up the importance of things like communication and making sure the both partners are comfortable before taking such a big step, even when it's not exactly relevant to the actual topic. We tell people here that you shouldn't rush into things and that you need to make sure you're both ready, etc. So then why is it OK to go out, find a couple and thrust them into the lifestyle without all those important considerations? Why is OK to grab some random couple and put their relationship in jeopardy in order to gratify ourselves? I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak out against vanilla hunting. We've never done it, but yet we never really thought about its consequence for a vanilla couple before either. I think people can be forgiven for not thinking it through, but after having given it some thought, it appears to be a wholly unacceptable practice. I have to say the the woman I had been writing to had every right to be upset that someone would endanger her marriage for their own short-term sexual gratification. What do you think? Is vanilla hunting wrong? If not, why not? If this has been discussed in detail, please forgive me. I did a search, but since you can't search a multi-word term like "vanilla hunting" I ended up with a billion results for "vanilla," which is so common I might as well have been looking through the entire forum

Hi! My wife and I frequent a restaurant here in town where there is a waiter she is very interested in having in our bed. He's a nice guy, and everything we look for in a third for a threesome. Of course, we have no idea if he's a swinger, and he probably isn't (most people aren't, after all). So, we're considering approaching him with the possibility of joining us in a threesome. My wife feels perfectly comfortable in a swing club, meet and greets, etc. But, in this situation she feels fairly shy. She's not uncomfortable with the idea of having sex with him. She's just feeling very shy about approaching him. She doesn't want to be there when we proposition this guy. I'd like some general input here on this question: Generally speaking, is a proposition to a vanilla male more likely to be accepted if the woman approaches him or the man or both? I'm sure there will be varied opinions. I'm not looking for proof that my wife she be the one doing the asking here. Don't worry I'm just wanting her odds to be the best, and see if maybe there's a general rule or what not out there on how people go about this sort of thing. Opinions? -MWP

My wife and I are looking to swing for the first time and we have many different fantasies but recently my wife told me how she has fantisized about a friend of hers who is single and a frequent visitor to the house for dinner, drinks and chit chat. The question is how can we "seduce" her (that seems rather strong but you get the idea) into being with her and possibly me? We are not sure if she is interested or even bisexual or bisexual curious but I have noticed little looks that she makes at my wife which may be my imagination but I think she is looking at her in a slightly sexual way. I have played little games of footsie with her under the table and she hasnt pulled back from these games. So what can we do or what can my wife do to try and get a more affirmative response from her that she is interested in something? How can she or we flirt with her to let her know our intentions? We want to make subtle flirtations at first so as not to scare her off but what can we do? I have thought of having her over and have wife put on a shirt without a bra and or skirt without panties and give her little looksies and see if I can catch her looking at wife and showing some kind of interest and build on that. Any other ideas? Please help us out. Thanks.

Hello all, first time post here. I have lurked for a while but now I need a bit of advice from some of you experts. For sometime now my wife and I have been fantasizing about other people in our relationship. As a matter of fact a few years ago we had a threesome with a female friend of ours. That night was erotic as all get out but we have not done anything since. Mostly because of our two young children and not enough time in the day to do anything else but take care of them and work. For about the last year my wife has been very attracted to one of her co-workers. Now she is not the most open person in the world so we have been settling for basically fantasizing about him and my wife together. To be honest with you it's a real turn-on. Our sex life as of late has been suffering and I needed to find a way to open it up again. The first thing I did was write my wife and erotic story revolving around one of her fantasies with this man. I'm telling ya she never came as hard as she did the other night. She really wants to pursue this other man. They both flirt back and forth all the time together so I do know there is a mutual attraction. Here's the tricky part. He is also married. I'm attracted to his wife as well but I do not know if she is attracted to me. Sometimes I feel she is, other times I don't know. I do have this feeling that this man wants to take my wife and maybe even have her join him and his wife for a threesome. I just have that feeling. I know that if my wife uttered one word to him about getting together he'd do it in a second. I want to be involved though in order to protect both sides in this. The flirting between my wife and this other man is constantly there and I want to find out if there is a possibility of the other woman and myself getting together. Can you give a guy a bit of advice to work with? Do we just blurt it out and ask? I mean I don't want to lose the friendship and look like an ass seeing something that isn't there? How do we break the barrier here? My wife wants it and I'm trying to figure out how to get it to her? And me as well. Thanks guys.