Our journey into swinging

Update: the other couple contacted us again, they really like to have a drink with us in a few weeks time. They are still coping with their loss but at the other hand life goes on and they like to keep in touch. So do we, so we agreed. Just like the first time they are a bit hesitant to plan and organize so it is up to us again to choose a place and time :-/ MsDiscover knows a very nice restaurant/bar here in our hometown, and yesterday the two of us took a drink there to see if the atmosphere was right for the four of us. It was and we had a nice whatsapp group-meeting online on our phones to pick a time and date. First having a drink and then having diner, MsDiscover made the reservation for somewhere in January.

Lots of innuendos and jokes during the meeting, nice to have a laugh again with the four of us. We really like these people, we sure will have a great evening. Not sure what will be in store after that, we'll see.

Last week, while giving each other a great massage (and more), MsDiscover & I discussed the road ahead. Specifically: when having a drink and dinner with the other couple, what would MsDiscover answer when asked what she thinks can happen in the future? Will this future be vanilla only? She really struggles with her wishes and limits. That night she said she likes to have another evening of playing together but at a slower pace. She definitely liked the massage part and like to do that again. She even considered to go beyond that and just see what the night will have in store. And is even considering a full swap.

Last night, however, she had serious doubts again and is nervous about what can happen. Still, she likes the thought of massaging the other couple so that is certainly something we will discuss with the couple when we are having dinner next week. We are both anxious to see them again and we do talk every day about them and the night we have spend with them. Also, both the quality and quantity of our sex life is at an all time high, so I'm certainly not complaining.

I really don't know if it fits the NRE-meaning, but boy are we experiencing an all time high in our relationship. Not only between the sheets (MsDiscover has let me experience things there I would she would never do to me). But our bond is so much stronger since two months. We laugh, play and talk more then ever. I'm totally in love with her again. Maybe we end up never going to swing again. But it already brought us so much, I had never expected that.

Tomorrow we are going to have drinks and dinner with the other couple, first time we are going to see them after our first (and last) encounter. I hope we can all four find a way to move forward, not only vanilla. Wish us luck. :-)

MrDiscover

Hmm. Drinks and dinner went fine, a bit awkward at first but we soon were talking like we are friends forever. It was so good to see them again. MsDiscover enjoyed the evening as well.

But.

At the point of my previous post I thought that would be one of the last posts in this thread since it is about problems and advice, and our journey seemed to take a good course. But now we have talked with the other couple for hours we have mixed feelings about them. We do like them very much and we feel sorry for their tragic loss, only a month ago. We do understand it is too early for them to go for another non-vanilla date soon. But MrDate came over as a bit too pushy. All while MsDate really only wanted to talk about death, loss, recovering etc. It felt weird how he brought up swinging at times when the talk was not about sex etc at all. We both felt that they were not aligned and maybe he pushed her too much. That swinging was less a free choice for her as we thought was. And that either this could be a problem in the future if we are going tot swing again, or even a reason they are not going to swing again ever.

At the other hand, after the last date that went wrong for MsDiscover we decided that we were not going to look elsewhere, we decided that if MsDiscover recovered and wanted to swing again (like she did indeed), this couple would be our one and only choice. I really do feel trapped, that we have placed our bet on the wrong horse here and we should have proceeded with our plans for the MFM date. Dating this beginning couple sounded so much like a good plan, on the same level and all. But maybe it only results in "the crippled leads the blind" (if that is a proper saying in English). A drama-free experienced single male sounds like a so much better plan.

In retrospective.

Anyone else has been in such a situation?

I guess not :-)

But I like to stop this thread here, but for good reasons: SWMBO & I have had long (and hot, in a positive way) discussions after the dinner date and again we grew closer. Turns out she agrees with me that the likelihood of us four ever share each other are slim now but we most likely we do have gained vanilla friends. We also agreed it would be fun to have a foursome with them again, once they want to and if the chance is there. So that's a big step forward for us, we now both are looking forward for that (again).

Plus I also discussed the feeling about feeling trapped. MsDiscover asked me what I would like to happen if everything was possible and I admitted the MFM we originally planned sounded still as a good idea. Much to my surprise she answered she would do that in a few months time. I totally did not expect that to happen so I was once again pleasantly surprised by her. We have the best sex we both can remember* the last two days and everything is (more than) fine at the moment.

So a good reason to stop posting in this thread (since it is about problems and advice) and start posting experiences in the proper threads.

Thanks,

MrDiscover

*) could be our age too

Hi, MrDiscover. Please forgive me if I get a few things wrong or ask questions that you probably answered above. I did my best to skim your posts.

1. Have you talked to MrsDiscover about why she gets cold feet or what makes her hesitant about exploring further? Looking back for myself, it was both exciting and nervous when we first started. When we went to the swingers club for the first time, I wanted to back out but Mr. Sun had already paid for the annual membership so I figured it wouldn't hurt to take a look. The first few times of going to the club, we didn't talk to anyone, certainly didn't play with anyone but we enjoyed each other and being exhibitionists. Perhaps that is more what MrsDiscover needs right now. Not quite getting together with another couple but perhaps enjoying a different sexual experience with you that doesn't include anyone else on a personal level.

2. As for picking another newbie couple to play with as well as putting all of your eggs into one basket--it certainly can cause issues. I highly recommend going with a patient, experienced couple for new swingers. You are correct...newbie couples are in essence, "the blind leading the blind". They are testing the same waters as you and don't know how they will react when first seeing their partner have sex with someone else whereas an experienced couple does. That doesn't mean that all experienced couples are the same or that it is a guarantee of no-drama...but it does lessen the chances of it happening. As for saying, "This is the couple that we should swing with, if we ever do it," puts unnecessary stress and expectations. There really shouldn't be any expectations of sex with another couple. If it happens, it happens. If not, then it's still great because you have each other. As you have experienced, once you have gotten to know the other couple a bit more, they were less desirable than previously thought because they didn't seem to be on the same page. Granted, they did just suffer a loss and it will take time to heal from that. In my opinion, it sounds like they need a longer break from swinging so that the Mrs. of the other couple can sort out her emotions and recover before jumping into swinging--especially since she has less experience than her husband.

3. Concerning the first experience you two had and MrsDiscover's lack of arousal...it might have to do with the difference of sex. Sex with you is special and emotional. Sex with practically a stranger, especially the first time, is detached. When we first swapped, was it exciting and different? Yes, but I will admit that I had a hard time letting go completely. After so many years of just having sex with Mr. Sun, I mentally found it odd to have someone else on top of me and had to imagine that it was Mr. Sun with me instead at times. So, it would switch back and forth from arousing to feeling strange. However, the overall experience was pleasant, different, exciting, and new. I think it also helped that our first couple was experienced and were very respectful and considerate (always making sure it was okay with Mr. Sun to do something to me and vice versa.)

I definitely recommend more communication on what is making MrsDiscover hesitant. Perhaps trying out exhibitionism for awhile might be her thing and she might warm up to soft swap and then to full swap. Or perhaps she won't. Or maybe she'll go full throttle after awhile.

Would MrsDiscover consider coming to the forum and sharing her side?

Hi Sunbuckus,

First of all thank you for skimming my posts *and* for your long reply!

1. Have you talked to MrsDiscover about why she gets cold feet or what makes her hesitant about exploring further? [snap] Not quite getting together with another couple but perhaps enjoying a different sexual experience with you that doesn't include anyone else on a personal level.

We talked about it and she now feels she overreacted right after the date. This was not a great year for her too, with a personal loss herself and health issues for example. She thinks November was just too soon, that we over hasted this date because this couple felt so right for our first date. In retrospective, I have to agree on that. Also, we were already trying things out for one and a half year so she felt more or less 'now or never'.

Exhibitionism is not her thing, more mine. She doesn't mind if other people are watching her making love to me (e.g.) or people can discover us when we have sex outdoors. But it does not turns her on, as she now has learned. The other way around too, she for instance doesn't mind seeing another woman being fucked silly by two man a few feet away from her in the club, but it doesn't arouse her either. Which took away a large part of excitement of being at the club. We discussed other ways of exploring sexuality together, a lot is already done and sometimes worth repeating every now and then (anal, outdoors etc.). I gave her a Vibease recently (a vibrator which can be controlled by her or my (!) phone ) and we are going to experiment with that too the coming ( ) weeks.

To be honest, MsDiscover is now far less hesitant to explore the LS further then she was a week ago, she has opened more now on this issue. She is more at ease, and (as a strange turn of events) seeing an hearing the other couple struggle with sharing intimacy, helped her to redefine what she wants. To accept that a visit or play date will not be perfect from start to finish, that it is ok to feel unsure, to be hesitant at times, or not feeling (much) arousal every now and then. Even at a date itself.

2. [snap] I highly recommend going with a patient, experienced couple for new swingers.

We see that now too, but at the other hand we don't want to lose contact with this couple, we really like them, also in the non-vanilla way. Se we keep contact and just see what the future will has in store for us. You are possibly right about the need for a longer break, but that is up to them as we are not responsible for how they cope with loss or their different speed in swinging.

But if we ever want to have a date with another couple, it has to be more experienced. That is for sure. And more likely it will be a single, experienced, male.

As for saying, "This is the couple that we should swing with, if we ever do it," puts unnecessary stress and expectations.

True. It definitely has brought extra pressure to the date, it *had* to be a success, otherwise all chances on swinger were lost, so to speak. And maybe that is also an answer on your last & following point, we think; it has lead to very high expectations for MsDiscover too.

3. Concerning the first experience you two had and MrsDiscover's lack of arousal...it might have to do with the difference of sex. Sex with you is special and emotional. Sex with practically a stranger, especially the first time, is detached. When we first swapped, was it exciting and different? Yes, but I will admit that I had a hard time letting go completely. (snap)

Sounds very true, I'll discuss this later on with her. (Even) more communication is definitely useful, even if we now think we know what direction we could take.

(snap) she might warm up to soft swap and then to full swap. Or perhaps she won't. Or maybe she'll go full throttle after awhile.

We only settled for soft swap because that was the limit for the other couple, both we like what is considered as full swap more, if something happens. She is not so much into foreplay, kissing and, as you know by now, into seeing and being seen. Besides, she said this morning: "I simply like the feel of a cock inside my cunt too much. If we meet another man, I want to feel his cock too". The last date we both kissed and had oral sex with the other couple and we both agree that is way more intimate then intercourse itself. Which goes a bit against the soft/full title of things but this is how we feel. :-)

Would MrsDiscover consider coming to the forum and sharing her side?

I'll ask but I don't think so, she never had much interest in the online part of swinging, like this and other boards. Or the profiles and chat on SDC e.g.

I do hope this post (and thread) is readable and clear as sometimes a foreign language like English is hard when you want to describe feelings, hopes and dreams :-)

MrDiscover

Ok, time for an update. Very little has happened so it seems but it's all in the details as it always seems with emotional stuff like this. :-)

Of course, we talked a lot about swinging in the last weeks In fact, almost no day goes by where we don't talk, joke, laugh or discuss about it. Mind you, no heavy talks in the 'sit down, I have to talk with you' way, but lighthearted which is a very positive sign. We both don't need another dark cloud hoovering above our heads in life. And all the while, we grow. A lot. I fact, I have never talked about such deep feelings and questions with anyone in my life, not only about relations and sexuality. It seems like this has opened so much more channels to communicate.

At one point, MsDiscover asked me what I really wanted to do if everything was possible, so I confessed I really wanted to see her having a good time with someone else between the sheets. She asked if I meant a MFM, I said 'for instance' and she answered: 'Ok, be sure we'll do that in a few months time too'. Besides that exiting promise, we are now emotional (very) ready to have another date with the other couple. And, by talks we had with them, they are too. Only two obstacles: MsDiscover had physical issues lately, including very heavy menstrual discomfort and pain, and the lady of the other couple is still coping with a personal loss. But we have a great vanilla time with them in the mean time, last weekend we had a spontaneous date with drinks and fun together until late at night.

So all in all things are going great: we all have fun again & that's what it is all about for us. :-)

MrDiscover

Thanks for the update! Everything happens for a reason...it sounds like the physical issues are actually helping to keep the pace nice and slow until everyone is ready to try again. It's great to hear that the communication is opening up. Take things easy and remember, sometimes the trip there is more important than the destination. Enjoy the trip as well. Good luck and let us know what else happens.

it sounds like the physical issues are actually helping to keep the pace nice and slow until everyone is ready to try again.

Funny, I was thinking the same about the way the other couple had to cope with their loss. You are absolutely right (again).

MrDiscover

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Thank you MrDiscover for sharing your very personal details. It gave me a lot to think about. So many of the stories posted here are just a little too perfect. It's helpful to read about the real-world struggles that always come with growth and expanding our boundaries. Not boring in the least.

Thank you Guy1964 but don't write a story or experience off just because it sounds too perfect, Just like failures and mishaps we read here on the forum about so often, things can go perfectly okay for others, as I have experienced on other areas of life. Let's just be happy not everyone stumbles trough the lifestyle.

Just want to tell our story of our baby steps, glad it helps someone.

Meanwhile, things are moving slowly forward here. If I have to label the small things happened last week, it would be 'embedding swinging in our lives'. We both talk about it once in a while, like a few times per day. Just joking most often. For instance if something about male erections is in the news, we joke how the M of the other couple would be in that regard when MsDiscover is going to fuck him in the near future. Or when we drive by a nice hotel, we discuss it as a possible place to stay for a next date. That sort of thing. Nothing heavy anymore, like the talks we had before we were on the same level about this.

The M of the couple surprised us by showing up in a very very vanilla situation, something like a children's art show, where we were with our little daughter. When I looked up and saw him chatting along with MsDiscover I could not believe my eyes, very strange to see him in that environment but after we stepped over the awkwardness, it was ok and very nice to step outside and talking a bit man to man about general stuff and of course swinging. MsDiscover felt the same, as they too talked a bit off court. It was good to talk about swinging a bit, 'cause the other couple still thought MsDiscover had a hard time with swinging and (lack of) emotions. It was good MsDiscover could explain this to him again, to reassure everything was fine now. We learned the F of the other couple even was holding back on swinging because she felt she was pushing my wife with it.

After some email back and forth, my wife and the other female have decided it is a good idea to have a drink together without those pesky pushy males and chat a bit. Great, that can only be good I'm sure. Exciting idea to know the two women that I had sex with in the last 15 years will have a date on their own...

Like said above, I enjoy the journey so far!

MrDiscover

It seems that everyone is now on the same page and looking forward to another hotel date (Yay!). But our schedules are full with lots of family-gatherings and stuff. Plus the male half of the other couple has the flu (Bleh!). It won't be until somewhere in March I think. But all in all it seems the more troublesome swinging days are behind us.

Well, since you insist : recently, we have had a great lunch in one of the best hotels in town with the other couple (our first and only). And right from the first moment there was that click again, like we are friends for years. MsDiscover took a seat next to the man and I next to the wife, close but very natural. Touching and laughing. It felt really good to be in each others company and nothing of the strong emotions after our first date in November was left. We complimented each other with the looks. Being able to say to another woman she is very hot and I was looking forward to have sex with her again, at the same table where her husband (and my wife) was listening to our conversation, was one of the hot little things I like in swinging so much. It is not only the bigger events and emotions, it's also these little happy things.

At one point we asked each other if everyone was in for another hotel date and everyone agreed. So in a few weeks time, depending on the menstrual cycle of both ladies, we will have a wonderful weekend away in a romantic hotel somewhere in the Netherlands.

So it seems this fairy tale got its happy ending.

OMG, yesterday evening I was massaging MsDiscover. Nice oil, soft lights. Meanwhile, MsD was group-whatsapp'ing the other couple. While my fingers were exploring her shoulders and back, they asked if we had plans for Saturday night and if not, if we wanted to go out, dinner/drinks and 'maybe more'.

We have learned a lot in the last few months, so alarms went off in our bedroom: 'do they mean what we think they mean? Major risk of misunderstanding ahead!!'. And so, learned from our mistakes, MsD wanted to ask what they meant, to be sure we were in sync. Heated by my massaging, as I had reached her buttocks at that moment, she bluntly texted a link to a hotel reservation for Saturday night. Enthusiast replies from everyone. Everyone but me, that is. Because my attention was quite elsewhere, I was exploring MsD's beautiful body even further. And with that, texting stopped abruptly, as you can imagine.

This morning, when I started the day with a fresh cup of coffee, I read all the Whatsapp messages I had missed. You can imagine the grin on my face, while I was drinking my coffee. Another thing we have learned: are thoughts and plans that were hot during sexy time still surviving the breakfast table? But yes, even now all emotions were calmed down, MsD and H&A still want to go through with it. So the four of us booked a nice romantic hotel deep in the forest, an hour drive from home and we told our kids they have the home to their selves this evening.

So there it is. A evening, night and morning with our friends. Lots of nervous feelings but we are looking forward to this weekend. So much is possible now, now everyone is on the same page. No feeling that this "has to succeed, no matter what". But instead the confident feeling we know each other, all four, good enough to communicate and speak up during play time.

Wish us luck!

Sounds like a delightful respite from the bustle of your everyday lives! Overnight with sexy friends in a wooded surrounding - and possibility of sex with breakfast Do let us know if things went well!

Good luck on what I'm sure will be a very exciting and memorable evening no matter how the details actually work out. It's an exciting thing, no doubt about it

Do let us know if things went well!

Sure! Everything went extremely well. MsDiscover and I enjoyed the evening very much & all involved had a great night. Now, the day after, we both still glow and I've read the other couple is enjoying 'the day after' as well.

There will be more experiences, both MsD and I definitely want to go ahead on this path. Since I feel this thread is wandering off topic now (lucky for us), I'll post a more detailed story in the proper forum: Adventures in Swinging.

Besides, the troubles we had the last 2 years at finding a good way to share our intimacy are now for sure behind us, part thanks to the very helpful insights of the members responding in this thread! It never felt so good to see a thread coming to a close